jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
I doubt if you could do that and get the same quality from for instance a 50 MP Canon sensor. The more you crop the more important things like per pixel acuity, crosstalk, precision of micro lenses, precision of Bayer filter, presence of an AA filter, etc. start to count. Clearly Leica has decided that a pixel size of 6 micron is optimal.
uhoh7
Veteran
It's a moving target, and I doubt anything digital is "decided". I was of the same opinion as you untill recently.
Then I was given a sony RX1r2 to use. It's 42mp BSI sensor is unbelievable. I'd been reading all about since the A7r2 came out, but nothing prepared me for the actual files, or it's great high ISO performance.
With a thin coverglass and good lens profiles I honestly think nothing would shoot M glass better today.
In terms of cropping potential if there is a pixel quality problem, you don't see it until way past where a 24mp can go.
If somebody's job was to pick the best sensor for M available today it would have to be the r2 + a .8mm schott coverglass. But you and I know there are many considerations, and the whole camera, body + lens package is judged on multiple variables.
Leica has done very very well all things considered.
Now what is gong to be really interesting is the konost release in a year. It won't compete with the M10 in pure RF terms, since it doesn't have an optical RF. But it will be a great new option and it may rival M performance in terms of across the frame performance with the film lenses. We will see.
In terms of getting the optical RF into a much smaller footprint: you are right it's engineering. You do need a certain width, obviously. But the M9 has alot of room to the right of the RF window. Frame selection might be achieved in various ways.
I am a real convert to the RF in daily use. It's so easy on the eyes, fast and accurate. Add a EVF and rear LCD live view. You have great options. A tilt EVF would be so nice.
And the M-mount itself could be very easily upgraded, to allow both close focus and auto-focus. The performance of the techart pro proves the latter, and the many CF adapters for sony bodies proves the former.
I advocate the dual state solution
Two bodies. One classic M, and one utterly state of the art, pushing every envelope. The M "Apollo" Such a camera would bring in many new Leica users.
LightBender
Member
Wait until you see the images that have been created with the M10 that will be shown on January 18th. Leica has always been about the photographers and the photographs they create. Be prepared to be wowed.
Sorry, I forgot we're talking about cameras...
Sorry, I forgot we're talking about cameras...
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Well-known
I've heard from an inside source that they rival the images from the Leica S.
LightBender
Member
I believe it is the other guys that make the "RF-like" tools. Leica is the one that actually makes the better RF tool.
Gentlemen, please keep unpleasantness out of the discussion thread, maintain polite discourse with mutual respect... (some posts removed).
airfrogusmc
Veteran
I go out of my way to avoid as many bells and whistles as possible. I have the original MM, M-E and M 262. Why would Leica want to be like Fuji? They would then be just like everyone else out there. I've shot with Fuji and prefer Leica by a lot. You should try Leica MM. I'm grateful that they are a real alternative. Hopefully Leica will release a more stripped down version a year of two after they release the M 10 like they did with both the M-E and the M 262.
adamjbonn
Established
I've read on the internet that Fuji considered this, but market research suggested a low return, so they developed the 'Acros' "film" simulation instead.
The Leica SL and Q are both technologically innovative products (in terms of Leica anyway, give or take they stand up to spec comparison with the other mirrorless cameras)
The T/TL is a technologically innovative product in its own righ, but POSSIBLY not a great seller... perhaps it needed to be FF... perhaps Leica customers aren't really that interested in that sort of product
Some Leica folk got all annoyed about CMOS and video on the 240, so FWIW I can't imagine a Fuji X-Pro type product would be that well received!
adamjbonn
Established
I believe it is the other guys that make the "RF-like" tools. Leica is the one that actually makes the better RF tool.
Quite right. In fact if you want a TRUE mechanical RF there's only one show in town
The Fuji reminds me a bit CONCEPTUALLY of a spring drive Grand Seiko, some of the tech of a mech watch, some tech of a quartz watch, overall something quite different to everything else
For some, only the true authentic mech watch will do, for others the brilliance of the spring drive solution is quite a draw.
Some own both.
Not so different to cameras
willie_901
Veteran
In my view Leica is highly innovative. Their innovation is focused on a niche market.
What percentage of new new camera buyers own a curated set of M/LTM lenses?
How many new camera buyers prefer a mechanical, optical RF and the ergonomics of a M camera body?
How many new camera buyers long for a minimalistic usage aesthetic where even AF is not offered?
The Monochrome Ms comprise a minuscule sliver of the global new camera market share. Yet Leica developed two of them.
The CMOSIS Ms serve that market share well and provide a platform with competitive technical performance (signal-to-noise ratio).
What percentage of new new camera buyers own a curated set of M/LTM lenses?
How many new camera buyers prefer a mechanical, optical RF and the ergonomics of a M camera body?
How many new camera buyers long for a minimalistic usage aesthetic where even AF is not offered?
The Monochrome Ms comprise a minuscule sliver of the global new camera market share. Yet Leica developed two of them.
The CMOSIS Ms serve that market share well and provide a platform with competitive technical performance (signal-to-noise ratio).
brennanphotoguy
Well-known
Looks like the M10 will take the M240 battery.
SaveKodak
Well-known
The Leica S has a sensor that's barely larger than FF and sensor tech that was dated at launch. So yes, it will rival the Leica S. As does the Nikon D610, and every other in-production FF camera made today.
Huss
Veteran
The term 'curated' has been overused in everyday life. From clothing stores, to gourmet donut shops, to now lens ownership.
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Well-known
I thought the Leica S sensor was 30x45, or approximately 50% larger than 24x36 full frame. The new sensors in the Hasselblad X1D and Fuji GFX50 are roughly the same size the Leica S, but of course with more megapixels. Here's an image showing the difference:
It appears ASP-C is to full frame as full frame is to Leica S (or equivalent).
Dante_Stella
Rex canum cattorumque
The term 'curated' has been overused in everyday life. From clothing stores, to gourmet donut shops, to now lens ownership.
I guess the rest of us just own expensive lenses haphazardly?
Dante
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Well-known
I would think to be curated, each lens in the set would have to be selected from many different examples and only the best one retained. Otherwise, it would just be a collection or, in technical terms, a "bunch".
SaveKodak
Well-known
I thought the Leica S sensor was 30x45, or approximately 50% larger than 24x36 full frame. The new sensors in the Hasselblad X1D and Fuji GFX50 are roughly the same size the Leica S, but of course with more megapixels. Here's an image showing the difference:
Leica's chart is misleading. This is a bit more accurate. Sure 56% larger, but no where near 645. I would criticize the GFX and X1D for being similarly cropped MFD, but they do make up for it a bit by using industry leading sensors and are very compact. The S is huge and has a bunch of reported problems from users, with the worst in class sensor performance.
Attachments
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Well-known
I don't think Leica's chart is misleading; it accurately shows the size difference among the sensors. What is inaccurate is the industry (not just Leica) calling any sensor larger than full-frame "medium format", when the sensors are significantly smaller than 6x6. The existing "medium format" sensors are half the size of 6x4.5, the smallest of the traditional medium formats.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Sorry, I'm a bit lost here... Are you referring to meaning #3 and our Bartender?The term 'curated' has been overused in everyday life. From clothing stores, to gourmet donut shops, to now lens ownership.
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Well-known
You are quoting definitions of curate as a noun. It is also a verb, i.e., select, organize, and look after the items in a collection or exhibition.