M240 family likes & future speculation

[Dante_Stella]

The update to the two-axis superimposed level actually makes the M 240 one of the most practical landscape cameras around. There is no optical finder that has a level that functions in vertical and horizontal orientation. And there are not a lot of cameras period that do anything except roll in terms of leveling. This means that you can shoot wides dead level with none of the resolution loss that accompanies perspective correction on Photoshop.

The Leica is also the only camera I know of that auto-magnifies its EVF when it senses focusing cam movement on an M lens. For whatever other deficiencies the EVF system has, this makes it a very fast system to focus and shoot.

The VF-2 schadenfreude is getting a little old. Frame rate would be worrisome if an EVF were your only window on the world. If I had an A7, an X-T1, a digital PEN, or the like, I surely would want a billion pixel finder and 60fps or greater - because that's all I would have that would be capable of focusing the camera. But the primary focusing mode of a Leica is its rangefinder/viewfinder, which has essentially no measurable refresh rate. Would it be nice to have a refresh rate that is higher? Probably. But is it a show stopper? No.

Dante

 

[Godfrey]

The update to the two-axis superimposed level actually makes the M 240 one of the most practical landscape cameras around. There is no optical finder that has a level that functions in vertical and horizontal orientation. And there are not a lot of cameras period that do anything except roll in terms of leveling. This means that you can shoot wides dead level with none of the resolution loss that accompanies perspective correction on Photoshop. ...

Just FYI, but both Olympus and Sony have two-axis level indication in viewfinder (EVF) and LCD. Panasonic might too, others ... Not sure. The Olympus E-5 had it in the optical finder as well, but maybe only one axis—can't remember. My Hasselblad SWC finder has a circular bubble level in the viewfinder, so I guess that's a two axis level in an optical finder as well! 🙂

Yes, the M is the only Live View camera that supports auto-magnification with M-mount lenses, but then at least Olympus and Panasonic do the same with their dedicated lenses too. I don't know of too many manufacturers that do mount adapters which support such dedicated features.

G

 

[Scheelings]

The M typ 240 video hardware that drives the LCD and EVF has to deal with more pixels from a larger sensor. I suspect there are simply hardware limitations in the M that make it difficult to drive it as well as the E-PL1 or E-PL7, and prevent providing compatibility to the VF-4. I suspect also that there would be little significant improvement if they could update to VF-4 compatibility for the same reason.

G

Surely the EVF is just using a small fraction of available pixels as an approximation of the image and that no more pixels are used than for cameras with significantly smaller sensors.

 

[airfrogusmc]

I hope Leica remains OUTDATED and keeps making cameras that no one else's is making. How many years did it take them to put a meter in an M? ANd they never went to auto focus with the M. If it means having manual focus and the some of the best glass in world then keep being outdated. I am a photographer the the MM is to automated. I bought it because it isn't the one size fits all camera that everyone else is trying to make. It was nice to have a real choice...

 

[Godfrey]

Surely the EVF is just using a small fraction of available pixels as an approximation of the image and that no more pixels are used than for cameras with significantly smaller sensors.

I'm not sure how they derive the video out image to the LCD and EVF. Certainly the output is smaller than the available capture pixel count, but exactly how they get there, and how upgradeable it is, is a matter of how they've implemented the hardware and firmware.

G

 

[Dante_Stella]

Just FYI, but both Olympus and Sony have two-axis level indication in viewfinder (EVF) and LCD. Panasonic might too, others ... Not sure. The Olympus E-5 had it in the optical finder as well, but maybe only one axis—can't remember. My Hasselblad SWC finder has a circular bubble level in the viewfinder, so I guess that's a two axis level in an optical finder as well! 🙂

Yes, the M is the only Live View camera that supports auto-magnification with M-mount lenses, but then at least Olympus and Panasonic do the same with their dedicated lenses too. I don't know of too many manufacturers that do mount adapters which support such dedicated features.

G

I think the big thing in the Leica world is optical finders - even among non-focusing viewfinders, few have any leveling device, fewer read in two directions, and none works when the camera is turned 90 degrees. Uniquely among Leicas, and indeed among anything that has a built-in rangefinder, the M 240 has the ability to level and focus through the same device.

On digital cameras, the implementation has been pretty poor, running from a virtual horizon on the back, to a single axis line through the frame, to bar graphs at 90 degrees out of your field of direct vision (Nikon and Olympus). The A7 is the only system that seems to be any good - and that series has apparently has problems with the types of Leica lenses that would need a level.

I am certainly aware that mirrorless cameras trigger auto magnification on their own when manually focusing their own lenses; I have a couple that do that. But that begs whether the real question is: (1) what is better than an M 240 using the alternative camera's own lenses and (2) what is better/cheaper/more practical to use than an M 240 when you can combine Leica glass with other bodies.

Dante

 

[Godfrey]

... But that begs whether the real question is: (1) what is better than an M 240 using the alternative camera's own lenses and (2) what is better/cheaper/more practical to use than an M 240 when you can combine Leica glass with other bodies.

I'd say based on the sensor performance and when using the top-line Olympus FT/mFT lenses, the E-M1 will give the M typ 240 a run for its money in many situations. But it's both a different format and a whole different kind of camera, so the dynamics in use are quite different and the imaging character is quite different as well.

Better/cheaper/more practical to use with M-mount lenses? Nothing, not all three anyway. M-mount lenses are best used on a Leica M, IMO.

I didn't buy a Leica M of any kind to compete with my other cameras. I bought the Leica M based on its lenses, on its format, and because of the rangefinder focusing system... Having a built-in level is nice too, but it's secondary to me.

G

 

[analogdigi]

Godfrey wrote "Of course, the M typ 240 will continue to be just as useful as it is now even when the M typ 240+n goes on the market..." What does "+n" mean?

Thanks,

Ben

 

[adietrich]

For me one big disadvantage of EVF (and live view for that matter) is the fact that they can only show what's in the picture, and not what will be in the picture real soon. Does that justify the whole rangefinder mechanics? I guess for some it does, and I really like the option of having one.

 

[Scheelings]

Godfrey wrote "Of course, the M typ 240 will continue to be just as useful as it is now even when the M typ 240+n goes on the market..." What does "+n" mean?

Thanks,

Ben

It's often used in Science/Math where by n represents a variable, in this case the 'nth' iteration of the camera, i.e n=1 would be the model after the 240, n=2 would be the next model after that.

 

[jaapv]

For me one big disadvantage of EVF (and live view for that matter) is the fact that they can only show what's in the picture, and not what will be in the picture real soon. Does that justify the whole rangefinder mechanics? I guess for some it does, and I really like the option of having one.

Leica is working on miniaturizing the Leica Time Machine to fit in the EVF....😛

 

[analogdigi]

For me one big disadvantage of EVF (and live view for that matter) is the fact that they can only show what's in the picture, and not what will be in the picture real soon. Does that justify the whole rangefinder mechanics? I guess for some it does, and I really like the option of having one.

Thanks. That is a very clear explanation.

 

[uhoh7]

I've been living with live view since 2010, and frankly I'm over it.

Give me a ZI18 or ZI21 finder on the M9 any day. My M9 is in to NJ for a shutter, so now I am back to A7 with a thin sensor glass mod so it shoots the ZM 18 and SEM 21 pretty well.

I hate it (although results are not bad). That little TV is a quick path to a migraine. It's slower and less accurate to focus, doubly so on the A7 since I have no infinity stop.

I really never thought I would say RF is better (for me), and it took me several months to get used to it. I was silly enough to get a frankenfinder at first, and leveling truly was a nightmare. But then I just bought the great Zeiss finders and got used to them.

My results speak for themselves (not that they are so wonderful); my hit rate on focus and leveling is higher with M9 than A7, even though I have years of practice with the Sonys.

To me the future is going to be smaller. Despite Stephen's cynicism, either Leica will give us an M6 size or smaller M body, or somebody else will.

For a truly small and great M platform, I might even put up with live view LOL But I would dearly miss the wonderful brightness and crystal clarity of the optical finder.

The A7 is the only system that seems to be any good - and that series has apparently has problems with the types of Leica lenses that would need a level.

Dante

Here you can see the A7.mod with ZM 18 with very good edge details in the distance

This costs about 400USD to have the stack replaced and the sensor moved forward at Kolarivision. Considering a used A7 is about 900USD, it's really the first genuine affordable M digital alternative in full frame, though the 240 is better still. But Liveview lovers (or just M glass lovers on a budget) can shoot many M wides now for 1300USD 🙂

 

[Manuel Patino]

Put on the EVF. It tilts up so you can work at a variety of angles pretty darn easily.

G

Agree to a point. The EVF allows different work angles. However, it's not an alternative to a swivel screen.... I do wish the M240 had one.