M3 DS but can only do single stroke.

[bawang]

I am seeking advise from the collective expertise here.

I have been shooting a lot more film on the Zorki and Yashica Electro 35 lately and, yesterday I found one Leica M3 Dual Stroke, very early model s/n 74x xxx, on sale. Unfortunately it has an issue. Seller said it's a double stroke but it cannot do the second stroke after the first one. I guess it's stuck.

It was supposedly working the last time it was used many many many years ago. The price is very reasonable for someone on student budget like me and that even if it is irreparable, I believe I can put it on sale as parts which I don't want to do. In other words, I would really like to use it. Everything else regarding the camera looks between EX- to BGN (KEH standard). I can't personally inspect it as the classified is posted elsewhere and being sold as-is.

So my question is, has anyone experience this or know what is causing this?

 

[wpb]

If you can wind on and then fire the shutter again chances are the film advance mechanism has been replaced with a single stroke apparatus. Replacement double stroke winding apparatus has not been available for some time.

 

[coelacanth]

Ask the seller and see if the shutter curtains are moving half way only, and you can't make the second part of the stroke (curtain stuck half way). Or it maybe just converted to single stroke like wpb said. I have an 83K DS M3, but it has been factory converted to SS.

Oh, and you should be able to do multiple stroke on SS or DS unit.

 

[bawang]

I got some pictures from the seller to show. Perhaps they can help since I don't have no clue how the curtain would look like after first stroke/wind.

 

[Mackinaw]

I agree with the others that it sounds like the DS mechanism was replaced with a SS. This as real common conversion back in the 1970's.

Also, I have a DS M3 and the curtains will only travel about 1/2 way through the film gate after one throw. The picture you've attached shows the curtains all the way across the film gate.

Jim B.

 

[bawang]

Thanks guys for helping me build some confidence. I went ahead and bought the camera with Summaron 3.5cm and 'cron 5cm after talking to the seller over the phone. I will update if and when I receive them.

Since this will be my first M Leica (just received my first LTM Leica IIIf RDST today), please give any advise you think fit to this newbie.

Regards.

KbZ

 

[coelacanth]

Congrats on the purchase. Now let's hope it's all good to go. But even if something IS wrong, I'm sure Youxin (or of course others) can fix it up to the top notch at very reasonable cost.

Just FYI, this is how the curtains look like when it's half way charged. This is my SS converted M3.

 

[bawang]

Thanks coelacanth.

I just noticed this morning that I can see the seam not completely hidden since I assume after complete winding, the seam cannot be seen at all like my Zorki-4. Could that be the issue?

Can you post picture of how it looks like after complete winding and ready to shoot state?

Thanks.

 

[coelacanth]

Hey.

You should NOT see the actual seam before and after the shot. (curtains charged or ran)

But! It is fairly common that the edge of the metal (see the picture I posted above) is shown after slower shutter speeds, even mid shutter speed.

If you actually see the seam where two curtains are touched, that needs some adjustment (shouldn't be a big deal, typical CLA would do. well, not always but most of time).

Update:
So do you have the camera with you now? If so, get a cheap color film and run a test roll. That's the best way to see if it's working or not. Every time I get new old camera, I shoot a quick b/w roll and develop it at night to make sure.

 

[coelacanth]

Now I noticed you had photos from seller. If that's after a full charge or after a release, the seam IS shown so it needs some CLA. (I believe it's quite typical, not a too bad sign if you got the camera cheap.)

 

[bawang]

I don't have the camera yet. The seller will ship once payment clears. Hopefully I will get it sometimes next week.

I saw a video on youtube regarding shutter tension not being right that it stops somewhere on the plane after being fired. The adjustment looks simple enough to do yourself, not that I plan to DIY it.

Thanks.

 

[wpb]

Just send it to Youxin Ye, he will take care of it quickly and inexpensively.

 

[coelacanth]

+1 for trip to Youxin. I believe his regular CLA is less than $100 for Ms. As long as curtains themselves are in good condition, I don't think you need major parts for the service.

 

[bawang]

Thanks. I have contacted Youxin and you are right, he quoted CLA at $80+ship and extra for parts/labor if other work is needed which I hope will not be needed for it.

 

[tenderobject]

hi guys! how to contact youxin? does he have a website?

 

[coelacanth]

Here you go! I don't think he has a website. I'd love to make one for him, but I don't think he needs one. 😉

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75578

 

[arseniii]

Your M3 definitely needs a service and hey, good news, it shouldn't be expensive. The curtain, on the pictures you have posted is definitely in the wrong place for either a SS or DS. I've had 4 M3s and none of them looked any similar to what you have posted... Good luck!

 

[tenderobject]

Here you go! I don't think he has a website. I'd love to make one for him, but I don't think he needs one. 😉

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75578

thanks coelacanth 🙂

 

[bawang]

Got the camera and lens.

I see the letter 'L' on the black dot on the mount. What does that means?

The shutter is indeed stucked. And the viewfinder is dark except for the 50mm brightline and 'focusing' patch. I heard this can be a really big issue, as I have read elsewhere to stay away from M3 with VF/RF issue as it's very expensive to repair. Yikes.

It looks like my IIIf RD ST sn/81x xxx will be on the market to pay for the repair. Anyone interested?

It's in wonderful shape. Shutter working fine, fast and slow speed. The only significant cosmetic flaw would be the two scratches on the bottom plate and cracking leatherette at two spots. The latest roll that I finished last week is still at the lab. I will put a post on the classified soon as I have a few other things to sell. How much do you think I should ask for this?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/khidhir/sets/72157622568665702/

Anyway, along with the M3, I also received the Summaron 3.5/35 and Summicron 2/50 which I am so eager to try. I will make contact with the Youxin Ye in the US soon and see if I can send it to him for repair.

 

[bawang]

Yep, took Youxin more than the regular CLA and freeing of stucked shutter to get this up an running. He has shipped it back to me. I would say the bill was not high by most people standard here judging by the work the Leica Repair folks had to do. But being 'poor hungry grad student', it was beyond my expectation to spent at the moment. I am left with no choice but to sell off some of my stuff. At the moment my current gear - Leica IIIf RDST, Yashica Electro 35 GL, Zorki-4 and Zeiss Ikon Contina will have to go to pay for everything. I have put them on the 'bay, so if anyone's interested, please visit and bid.

Once the M3 arrive, I will update the forum on it condition and what Youxin did to revive it.

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