M3 + Summitar 5cm f2 + 90mm Wollensack

[Vincent.G]

Guys

I currently own a M2 + Summaron 35 f2.8 and Summicron 50 DR f2. I am actually looking for a 2nd M body for my DR so M3 naturally is my choice.

I have an offer to sell me the whole set for about 1.4 grand. The M3 is really mint with s/n 11*****. I know little about the 90mm Wollensack. The summitar seems to be quite a old lens, earlier than collapsible cron. Is this a good deal?

 

[johannielscom]

90 Wollensak is expensive with the likes of leicashop.com as well as with eBay sellers Arsenal and Kevinscameras, but probably from a collectors point of view interesting. I've never seen shots from one so cannot tell you about optic quality.

If you're planning on buying a lens for shooting it, I'd consider another one. The M3 is from the very last batches with the high number, and these are sought after. Try to get thte seller to tell you what the M3 with Summitar would cost you and have him sell the Wollensak to someone else if the M3/Summitar price is right, I'd say.

 

[johannielscom]

Additionally, in That Auction Sites' completed auctions, someone has gotten really lucky and bought one for USD 130.

Normally they are listed for like USD 1100, like the one from the Czech Republic that's on there now, but they hardly ever sell through that Auction Site for a price like that.

Again, acceptable prices for the Wollensak are unclear, try to get the seller to tell you how much the M3 with Summitar will be

 

[Vincent.G]

Thanks Johan. I will check with the seller. From the pictures he sent me, the M3 looked really mint. He claims it has not been used for many years but he exercises the SS dial and shutter frequently. The small RF window looks dirty inside. I might be paying a premium for a collectors' version though.

 

[maddoc]

"Small RF window looks dirty inside" rings an alarm bell. If it is only dirt then no big problem but make sure that the RF prism are not separated / deteriorated. That repair is very expensive.

 

[johannielscom]

Thanks Johan. I will check with the seller. From the pictures he sent me, the M3 looked really mint. He claims it has not been used for many years but he exercises the SS dial and shutter frequently. The small RF window looks dirty inside. I might be paying a premium for a collectors' version though.

RED ALERT!

Dirty insides of viewfinders might indicate that the balsam that keeps the rangefinder glass pieces together, is deteriorating. Can be expensive to repair.

Look for a thread on here that tells you what to check when buying an M-Leica, and if you cannot inspect the camera yourself, have the seller make VERY detailed shots so you can assess from a distance.

Repairman Youxin Ye (Leica Repairmen thread is a sticky thread in the Leica M forum) charges USD 130 for a full CLA and he doesn't take months to get the job done. RF repair will be additional I reckon. Contact Youxin when you have the shots from the seller. You might wanna calculate this repairs business into the cameras price when buying, or suggest the seller to take care of it before you buy at the agreed price.

 

[David Murphy]

I owned a Wollensak once that I got with a buy of a camera and a lot of accessories. I sold it on Bay for around $100. It is not rare, and not that special. I don't know about the optical quality, but I assume it's similar to the Elmar 90.

 

[Vincent.G]

Now this sounds serious. The seller claims it is some dust web inside the small rf window.

I now got another seller offering me his M4P + nokton 35 f1.4 for around the same price. Is this better?? He is even willing to sell his M4P body alone for about $870.

Really need some advise here.

 

[Silva Lining]

Now this sounds serious. The seller claims it is some dust web inside the small rf window.

dust web sounds like fungus to me, depends upon the seriousness as to whether it will have damaged the camera, either way it will likely need cleaning and/or repair.

It's quite possible that the camera is still very useable, but you wouldn't want to pay a premium for a 'user'.

As a previous poster suggested, some close-up pictures would allow a fuller diagnosis 🙂

 

[johannielscom]

dust web in a rangefinder usually means balsam decomposing, leaving parts of the rangefinder unattached to the rest, or (more likely) a two-way mirror in the RF starting to de-silver. This looks like little 'hairs' when its starting from the edges, or something fungus-like when it starts in the middle of the RF patch.

Here's what it looks like in the RF patch of my M5:

If you look closely, the RF patch has 'hairs' reaching into it from the sides. In real life, it is a bit more visible than in this shot.

So far, it hasn't bothered me but it is a condition that will not go away, it will worsen over time.

Like a previous poster said, paying a premium for a very clean camera and turning it into a user camera can be considered a waste of mint camera or cash. But you can also decide you just don't care about that and shoot the camera until the end of it (some fifty years 😀)

EDIT: If you want to shoot a 35mm lens, the M4-P is a better camera, the M3 does not have 35mm frame lines. USD 870 is a decent price for the M4-P, if fully functional. The 35/1.4 Nokton can be had for approx. USD 400, IIRC

 

[Vincent.G]

Hi Johan

I don't mind sharing this. Here's the URL of the ebay item: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320454114149&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:US:1123

Have a look at the first few pictures. The RF window is dirty. Not sure if this is the balsam problem you are saying.

 

[johannielscom]

More weird stuff: a double stroke camera with a 1.1 million serial? IMPOSSIBLE.

Either the top plate was fitted onto an older camera or the seller is pulling your leg. Stay away from that one, there's something smelling very bad around there!!!

 

[Vincent.G]

Oh yes! DS for over a million series M3 is impossible! How come I missed that??:bang:

Thanks for the heads up, guys! I really really appreciate all the advice given. RFF is such a helpful place. I've done the right thing by asking here before doing something foolish with my money.

I have a better gut feeling with this seller, he is offering me this:
M4P - $870
Nokton 35 f1.4 w hood - $430

Is this a fair deal?

 

[Ronald M]

m3 UNDER ser 875000 about started life as double stroke, but many have had transports converted. Mine are converted.

NO other cameras were double stroke.

Summitars are soft and flairy wide open. By 5.6 mine become as sharp as any Leica lens.

90 Wallys are like 90 elmars, nice colors and sharp closed down.

M4P were decent cameras. They lost the nice smooth brass gears to a slightly rougher but more durable steel gears for motor winder use. The first ones had nice taditional brass tops. Laters featured " M6" windows more flush fitting. These are zink pot metal tops that somtimes internally decomposes and leaves bumps all over the camera. IF THE ALLOY IS RIGHT, the is serviceable but goes to a zink color instead of brass from corner wear. All have no balsam cement, but have a different curing cement that does not go bad.

Price seems decent but I am no expert.

 

[photo4ls]

Vincent.G,
You may be safer by checking the classifieds
here before you try any of those auction sites.
Just my 2cents.
Nelson

 

[Al Kaplan]

During and right after World War II Wollensack was selling lenses in Leica thread mount. I think that E. Leitz New York was marketing them in the U.S. You couldn't get German lenses here. Once real Leitz lenses were available again the Wollensacks could be had for a song. In the early 60's a used 90 Elmar was in the $40 to $50 range while $15 or $20 would get you a Wollensack Raptar.

 

[david.elliott]

Vincent.G,
You may be safer by checking the classifieds
here before you try any of those auction sites.
Just my 2cents.
Nelson

I'll echo this sentiment.

 

[Vincent.G]

Thanks for the all the advice people. Really appreciate it. I will continue to shop around.