M4-P. An undervalued gem?

Tom A said:
One of my M4-P's dates back to 1982. i have no idea how many 1000's of rolls of film has gone through it over the last 25 years. It was my primary camera for about 5 years. After that it became my "test" bench for making Rapidwinders and was mercilessly beaten up in the shop (4000+ winders were cycled through it. 5 to 10 rolls per winder!) over 20 years! It was serviced quite regularly (every decade or so). The rangefinder went out of whack once when it was dropped and the intermediate gear train was replaced in the early 90's (using it to adjust drives on winders took its toll).
A year ago I had it stripped of what was left of the black chrome (not much!) and painted it black with a "textured" matte black finish. It still works fine and gets a fair amount of film through it, particularly matched to the compact 28f3.5 VC lens. So the 28 finder is a bit tough to see with glasses, but thats how it was from day 1 and I have gotten used to it.
My M2's are a bit smoother maybe and the M6's and MP are more convinient with its built in meters, but the M4P feels bullet proof!
Click to expand...

That's a great story, Tom! A testament to the M4-P's "built like a tank" reputation.


🙂
 
TJV said:
... M4-P, especially the ones made in Canada, are a real under valued item...
Thoughts? J
Click to expand...

Perhaps you can tell me which ones were NOT made in Canada.

Most of the ~26,000 produced had brass topcovers; but the very last models (about 3,000 units) had zinc topcovers in preparation for the M6. Some of these are "said" to have been made in Germany, but I have never seen any M4-P point of origin indicating (engraved) anything other than "Made in Canada."
 
Yes, the flare-free retrofit is possible on the M4-P.

FWIW, the 75mm frames (you can't call them framelines) in the M4-P are, unless I mis-remember, corners only. The M6 mask added vestigial lines to help delineate the 75mm FOV. If you use 75mm lenses, that might (or might not) matter.
 
Thanks again Randy

Thanks again Randy

I just ordered one of these from Stephen. Will be fun to play with and will let me get some use out M4p and other non-metered cameras.

vrgard said:
Ted - I haven't done a direct comparison between the CV II meter and the M6 but from what I can recall they are both considered pretty accurate. And I understand what you're saying about having to transfer a meter reading to the camera. However, what I've learned is to avoid taking meter readings for every shot and, instead, just take a new reading when the lighting conditions change significantly. Alternatively, you can meter for a couple of different conditions that you're shooting in and then just remember those two readings and simply reset your camera settings when you move between those two conditions (and, of course, all the other combinations that likewise work due to reciprocity). All told, I'm really enjoying this kind of operation rather than chasing the diodes in some feeble attempt to get some exact setting for each shot.

-Randy
Click to expand...
 
BillBlackwell said:
Perhaps you can tell me which ones were NOT made in Canada.

Most of the ~26,000 produced had brass topcovers; but the very last models (about 3,000 units) had zinc topcovers in preparation for the M6. Some of these are "said" to have been made in Germany, but I have never seen any M4-P point of origin indicating (engraved) anything other than "Made in Canada."
Click to expand...

To be honest, I just assumed that they made them in both Germany and Canada. Goes without saying then: The Candian models are cheap.
 
I have a Leica meter MR and have used it with good results, particularly when using XP-2 B&W film. When I hold it alongside my Gossen Luna Pro I get similar readings.

It is however a reflected light meter and for some reason I cannot get consistant results on my chromes unless I use my Gossen as a incident meter. ( This is me, remember, I know others who have no issue incident or reflected. ) So I use my Gossen when needed and leave the MR meter off.

Yes, this slows things down a little some times but I've learned over the years not to depend to much on meters. Sometimes a real good guess is as good as it needs to be.

I use my M4-P and M2 with a handheld light meter and get consistantly better results with chromes than I do with my F3 on automatic. (unless I bracket.)
 
I'm reading this and smiling a bit. I've just sold an M4-P thru flickr. I put it on flickr to have a link of large photos on the RFF site. Before I even finished uploading and describing the 8 images I had 10 hit and 2 enquiries. One was from a friend. It was sold before I even finished on flickr or had time to place the ad and link to filckr on RFF!

Price... $700.00 Cdn
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jann/966254103/
 
I think people are misinterpreting the meaning of the different engineering approach used in the cameras that followed the M5. In Stephen Gandy's words the M5 was

"The last regular production M to be built in the traditional "adjust and fit" method rather than the later "correct or replace" method initiated with the M4-2."​

Now I'm not a camera tech, but this seems to be pointing to the adoption of an approach to building the cameras that focused on a more efficient (and therefore less expensive) way to build and service the cameras. The "adjust and fit" method used in the earlier cameras (M3, M2, M4 and M5) might be regarded as closer to the ideal of designing and building a "perfect" machine, regardless of cost.

However, both approaches are capable of producing a very reliable camera which works with the necessary precision.

And we should be very grateful that this change in approach allowed Leica to survive in the market!


(see http://www.cameraquest.com/mguide.htm)
 
maddoc said:
I agree with that the M4-P is probably not meant for collecting or fondling but ... it "wows" people more than the M6, M3, MP I had or have 😀

I went the way M6 (sold) -> MP (now at service and will be kept) -> M3 (sold) M3 with M2 VF (sold) -> M4-P. I wanted a meter-less M body with 28mm frame-lines as 2. body and now the M4-P is my most used camera. Recently took it to a business trip (with the 50 Summicron Rigid and the 28mm Elmarit III) and it was just a great experience. Sometimes I use a hand held meter (Gossen Digisix) but mostly I estimate the exposure.

My M4-P was recently serviced by Youxin Ye and now it is like new again. The only thing I didn't like about the M4-P was the advance lever so I ordered a M3 type black one from DAG and exchanged it myself.

With Luigi strap and Summilux 35mm pre-ASPH

1281753159_b7427f9fd9.jpg
Click to expand...

Hey, am I correct in saying that this is the part you ordered from DAG?
The tools you describe to change it... Can you elaborate?

Mlever.JPG.jpg
 
TJV said:
Hey, am I correct in saying that this is the part you ordered from DAG?
The tools you describe to change it... Can you elaborate?

View attachment 50303
Click to expand...
Hi !

yep, that's the part ! DAGM02 black M3 advance lever and the tool I used is: a flexi-clamp (I bought the Beryllium Copper version) from Micro-Tools. I bought two sizes, FLB-5-A and FLB-6-A but I have to re-check, which of them I actually used for the conversion.
 
maddoc said:
Hi !

yep, that's the part ! DAGM02 black M3 advance lever and the tool I used is: a flexi-clamp (I bought the Beryllium Copper version) from Micro-Tools. I bought two sizes, FLB-5-A and FLB-6-A but I have to re-check, which of them I actually used for the conversion.
Click to expand...

Is a flexi-clamp a standard or custom tool? I've never heard of such a thing...
 
TJV said:
Is a flexi-clamp a standard or custom tool? I've never heard of such a thing...
Click to expand...
It is a standard tool to fix / loosen screws with a plain shape. In the case of advance lever you have to unscrew the black ring-like screw around the shutter button on top of the advance lever. A flexi-clamp looks like this.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom