ferider
Veteran
TJV said:
Hi TJ,
congrats on your new camera. Before you order the replacement rewind
handle, I recommend to try out the M4P's. Might not look as cool but
some of use prefer it - I find it much more functional.
Best,
Roland.
jan normandale
Film is the other way
FrankS said:
Frank, you must disclose your "conflict of interest" I saw a very tasty M5 in your hands not long ago. I also got a 'fondle' IIRC ;- )
kevin m
Veteran
Not to be contrary, but I always felt the M4-P was the one 'no thanks' body in the whole pantheon of M bodies. It's the worst of both worlds, IMO. No meter, like the old bodies, but with the inferior finder and lower quality finish work of the newer bodies. A clean M6 can be hand for a couple hundred more, OR you could have a really nice M2 or M3 for the same price. If you gotta have the 28mm finder, I guess it is the cheapest option, though.
I agree with the other posters that the M4-2 is the true bargain of the M world. I heard all the internet fear-mongering about this camera, but I received one in a trade and liked it so much I kept it in my wedding bag for a year before I traded 'up' for a TTL. Reliable as a brick. It has the clean 35/135-50-90 finder, vulcanite, and rapid loading, too. And they can be had for perhaps a couple hundred less than the M4-P with careful shopping.
As others mentioned, the vintage bodies - the M3, M2, M4 and M5 - really are something special. Not that the new cameras are bad, not at all, but you can almost sense twenty technicians in white lab coats building the old ones. They really DON'T build 'em like that anymore. Even Leica....
I agree with the other posters that the M4-2 is the true bargain of the M world. I heard all the internet fear-mongering about this camera, but I received one in a trade and liked it so much I kept it in my wedding bag for a year before I traded 'up' for a TTL. Reliable as a brick. It has the clean 35/135-50-90 finder, vulcanite, and rapid loading, too. And they can be had for perhaps a couple hundred less than the M4-P with careful shopping.
As others mentioned, the vintage bodies - the M3, M2, M4 and M5 - really are something special. Not that the new cameras are bad, not at all, but you can almost sense twenty technicians in white lab coats building the old ones. They really DON'T build 'em like that anymore. Even Leica....
Dektol Dan
Well-known
Quote=Amen
Quote=Amen
Agreed. The only thing I can add to that is the worst amateur painters tend to buy small pointy brushes, but the experienced painters get the most out of a big chisel and will treasure the well worn ones.
I still have my old man's brushes from the '30's. They're GOLD!
Quote=Amen
literiter said:
Agreed. The only thing I can add to that is the worst amateur painters tend to buy small pointy brushes, but the experienced painters get the most out of a big chisel and will treasure the well worn ones.
I still have my old man's brushes from the '30's. They're GOLD!
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
The M4-P will be my only Leica for a long, long time.
I have done my research, handled different bodies, but chose it in the end.
Despite what some had said earlier, the finish, viewfinder, and overall build of the M4-P is as high-quality as the M4 and M6. Which makes it a bit lower compared to a well-CLA'd Leica IIIc/f
Plus it has no meter, which in my book, makes it a superlative camera.
Plus it is cheaper, tha makes it a real gem, with a real value
Plus I think the red dot is in the "right" place with M4-P. It's there to see when the camera is on display, but it's hidden by my grip when I'm using it. Superficial? yes, Cool? definitely!
So, TJV, congrats on your M4-P, you'll like it.
Here's mine with an Elmar-M (also my only lens )
I have done my research, handled different bodies, but chose it in the end.
Despite what some had said earlier, the finish, viewfinder, and overall build of the M4-P is as high-quality as the M4 and M6. Which makes it a bit lower compared to a well-CLA'd Leica IIIc/f
Plus it has no meter, which in my book, makes it a superlative camera.
Plus it is cheaper, tha makes it a real gem, with a real value
Plus I think the red dot is in the "right" place with M4-P. It's there to see when the camera is on display, but it's hidden by my grip when I'm using it. Superficial? yes, Cool? definitely!
So, TJV, congrats on your M4-P, you'll like it.
Here's mine with an Elmar-M (also my only lens
)
I'd say that the M4-P (and M4-2 for that matter) are definitely under appreciated, but probably not undervalued. The free market sets the price based on condition, demand, etc.
If I'm not mistaken they made fewer M4-2s than any M...is this accurate?
If I'm not mistaken they made fewer M4-2s than any M...is this accurate?
literiter
Well-known
Hate to say it but the truth is, and I have this verbatim from the guy that delivers our firewood that the "M4-P is the greatest Leica ever" And I believe him. He told me he knows nothing about cameras, cares nothing about cameras and doesn't even own a camera and yet, even he, can tell you that the M4-P is the best Leica ever. There!
But it doesn't stop; my particular Leica is actually very special.
-My Leica was actually blessed by one of the Barnacks. Her little kiss mark is still on it!
-My particular "Red Dot" must be of a lighter metal or be of a special quality because it does not interfere nor enhance my picture taking in any way.
-My M4-P feels different to me in my camera bag so I'm able to pick it up and use it rather than my M2. I'm afraid of bashing my M2.
-My M4-P was made in Canada (I think, almost all, were actually), where many people think that the quality cannot therefore be anything like that made in Germany. The fact that many excellent techs came to Midland from Germany and that Canadian manufacturing rivals German manufacturing is often overlooked. (Something about the poor beer, cold, snow and the fact that they eat moose over there.)
-My particular M4-P actually takes pictures indistinguishable from my M2. This appears to be unusual.
But it doesn't stop; my particular Leica is actually very special.
-My Leica was actually blessed by one of the Barnacks. Her little kiss mark is still on it!
-My particular "Red Dot" must be of a lighter metal or be of a special quality because it does not interfere nor enhance my picture taking in any way.
-My M4-P feels different to me in my camera bag so I'm able to pick it up and use it rather than my M2. I'm afraid of bashing my M2.
-My M4-P was made in Canada (I think, almost all, were actually), where many people think that the quality cannot therefore be anything like that made in Germany. The fact that many excellent techs came to Midland from Germany and that Canadian manufacturing rivals German manufacturing is often overlooked. (Something about the poor beer, cold, snow and the fact that they eat moose over there.)
-My particular M4-P actually takes pictures indistinguishable from my M2. This appears to be unusual.
ferider
Veteran
Funny to think that Mandler himself stayed in Canada for over half a century
and still the Canadian quality did not catch up with the German, even after
he became a citizen.
Also, I always wondered how moose tastes different from horse.
and still the Canadian quality did not catch up with the German, even after
he became a citizen.
Also, I always wondered how moose tastes different from horse.
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back alley
IMAGES
moose is not as sweet...but makes for a great stew along with home made bannock.
joe
If you don't have a frying pan you can make a thicker dough by adding less water. Roll the dough into a long snake, no wider than an inch. Wind this around a preheated green hardwood stick and cook over a fire, turning occasionally, until the bannock is cooked.
Bannock Recipe
Ingredients:
• 4 cups flour
• 4 teaspoons baking powder
• 1 teaspoon salt
• 4 tablespoons oil
Directions:
1. Mix ingredients and add water until you have a doughy consistency. Knead approximately 10 minutes.
2. You can add cinnamon/brown sugar to make it taste a bit differently.
3. Grease and heat a frying pan. Form the dough into cakes (sort of like tortillas or pancakes) about 1/2
inch thick and dust lightly with flour.
4. Lay the bannock in the frying pan.
5. Wiggle the pan every so often to keep the bannock from sticking.
6. Once a bottom crust has formed and the dough has hardened enough to hold together, turn them.
7. Cooking takes 12-15 minutes.
joe
If you don't have a frying pan you can make a thicker dough by adding less water. Roll the dough into a long snake, no wider than an inch. Wind this around a preheated green hardwood stick and cook over a fire, turning occasionally, until the bannock is cooked.
Bannock Recipe
Ingredients:
• 4 cups flour
• 4 teaspoons baking powder
• 1 teaspoon salt
• 4 tablespoons oil
Directions:
1. Mix ingredients and add water until you have a doughy consistency. Knead approximately 10 minutes.
2. You can add cinnamon/brown sugar to make it taste a bit differently.
3. Grease and heat a frying pan. Form the dough into cakes (sort of like tortillas or pancakes) about 1/2
inch thick and dust lightly with flour.
4. Lay the bannock in the frying pan.
5. Wiggle the pan every so often to keep the bannock from sticking.
6. Once a bottom crust has formed and the dough has hardened enough to hold together, turn them.
7. Cooking takes 12-15 minutes.
Last edited:
literiter
Well-known
ferider said:Funny to think that Mandler himself stayed in Canada for over half a century
and still the Canadian quality did not catch up with the German, even after
he became a citizen.
Also, I always wondered how moose tastes different from horse.
Best thing: Visit Canada, eat some moose.
Bill Blackwell
Leica M Shooter
digitalintrigue said:
Well, sort of.
If you discount the original MP, Postcamera, military models, any of the myriad of special editions, and the M cameras Leica produced without an RF (M1, MD, MDa, and MD-2), then I believe this is correct.
Joop van Heijgen
Established
kevin m said:Not to be contrary, but I always felt the M4-P was the one 'no thanks' body in the whole pantheon of M bodies. It's the worst of both worlds, IMO. No meter, like the old bodies, but with the inferior finder and lower quality finish work of the newer bodies. A clean M6 can be hand for a couple hundred more, OR you could have a really nice M2 or M3 for the same price. If you gotta have the 28mm finder, I guess it is the cheapest option, though.
I agree with the other posters that the M4-2 is the true bargain of the M world. I heard all the internet fear-mongering about this camera, but I received one in a trade and liked it so much I kept it in my wedding bag for a year before I traded 'up' for a TTL. Reliable as a brick. It has the clean 35/135-50-90 finder, vulcanite, and rapid loading, too. And they can be had for perhaps a couple hundred less than the M4-P with careful shopping.
As others mentioned, the vintage bodies - the M3, M2, M4 and M5 - really are something special. Not that the new cameras are bad, not at all, but you can almost sense twenty technicians in white lab coats building the old ones. They really DON'T build 'em like that anymore. Even Leica....
'As others mentioned, the vintage bodies - the M3, M2, M4 and M5 - really are something special. Not that the new cameras are bad, not at all, but you can almost sense twenty technicians in white lab coats building the old ones. They really DON'T build 'em like that anymore. Even Leica....
'You can say the same about the mechanical Leicaflex SL (SL 2) camera's!
Both Leicaflex types are at the moment a bargain to buy.
The use of these cameras give you the same feeling like the Wetzlar M cameras.
At the moment the lenses for this camera are not expensive and are of
'top' quality!
For instance: the quality of the R-2,0/50 lens has the same quality like the the M-2.0/50 but is much cheaper!
Use them both: the M-Leicas and the Leicaflex cameras! The images of the two types of cameras are of the same high quality!
kevin m
Veteran
I've heard that, and I'd like to try one out. They're certainly a bargain in the Leica world. Cheers...
MISH
Well-known
[
i don't care what any one says this picture of Shadofox's camera is about as sexy a Leica as i have ever seen .... what a combo
i don't care what any one says this picture of Shadofox's camera is about as sexy a Leica as i have ever seen .... what a combo
maddoc
... likes film again.
I like my Super-Angulon-M and also Summitar a lot and use them quite often. Unfortunately, these lenses can't be used with a M5 but with M2 / M3 / M4 / M4-2 / M4-P / M6 / M7 / MP ... The M5 is maybe a masterpiece of engineering skills / craftsmanship but has some limitations in usability and that's not what I would call a jewel ...FrankS said:
I picked this one up off ebay...it appears to have never been used. Talk about an undervalued gem!
TJV
Well-known
digitalintrigue said:I picked this one up off ebay...it appears to have never been used. Talk about an undervalued gem!
Mate, you're killing me! Mine hasn't arrived yet and I'm hanging out big time. I have a few projects on the go and it will be a welcome addition to my bag, especially when my Nocti finally arrives (I've only been waiting 9 months, could be some time yet...)
If you don't mind me asking, what did you pay for the above camera? It looks beautiful and can only hope mine arrives in much the same condition.
As to the M4-P being the WORST of both worlds, as someone stated above, I actually really like non-metered bodies. Keeps one on one's toes. After many bad experiences with accidentally knocked compensation dials, ISO setting etc on more automated / electronic bodies I welcome something so simple.
I wouldn't kick a new MP out of bed though.
Here is the auction: http://tinyurl.com/2tvlvv
Needless to say I'm quite happy. I don't see any evidence this one has ever been used. No film particles, no signs of film moving across the pressure plate, no marks, even faint ones, no sign of a strap ever being hooked to the strap lugs...
Nocti? How cool...maybe one day...
Needless to say I'm quite happy. I don't see any evidence this one has ever been used. No film particles, no signs of film moving across the pressure plate, no marks, even faint ones, no sign of a strap ever being hooked to the strap lugs...
Nocti? How cool...maybe one day...
Bully
Established
The M4-P is also a full member of the m-family as any other m-body. It is part of the unwritten myth.
Bully
Bully
BillBingham2
Registered User
digitalintrigue said:Here is the auction: http://tinyurl.com/2tvlvv
Needless to say I'm quite happy. I don't see any evidence this one has ever been used. No film particles, no signs of film moving across the pressure plate, no marks, even faint ones, no sign of a strap ever being hooked to the strap lugs...
Nocti? How cool...maybe one day...
OH MY GOSH was that a deal! Well done!
B2 (;->