M4-P Brass top

Artorius

Artorius

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I have an opportunity to purchase an M4-P brass top <1580000. Can I have someone take the black chrome off and then re-chrome it with a silver chrome? I don't like black Leicas(don't flame me please).
 
There is much on this forum and elsewhere about repainting bodies, but I cannot recall anything about re-chroming them. However, if chrome can be stripped...
 
removing black chrome (the salt used is called Eloxal and is a Leitz product) is not simple. You can try some plating outfit and they can most likely do it. The re-chroming is another matter. It is not just the plating, it has to be "beaded' afterwards to give the dull, matt look. Otherwise it will look like a bumper on a car!
It is not going to be that cheap and you are also going to have to replace the seals around the windows as well as pray that the thread around the eye-piece is not going to be buggered up by the deplating. In your situation, I would be tempted to look for a chrome M4-P, they are around and used ones are a bit premium, but probably less than the cost of the replating.
There is a reason for the abundance of "fake" black paint Leica's, versus fake chrome ones. It is very difficult to match the original leica chrome finish!
 
Tom A said:
removing black chrome (the salt used is called Eloxal and is a Leitz product) is not simple. You can try some plating outfit and they can most likely do it. The re-chroming is another matter. It is not just the plating, it has to be "beaded' afterwards to give the dull, matt look. Otherwise it will look like a bumper on a car!
It is not going to be that cheap and you are also going to have to replace the seals around the windows as well as pray that the thread around the eye-piece is not going to be buggered up by the deplating. In your situation, I would be tempted to look for a chrome M4-P, they are around and used ones are a bit premium, but probably less than the cost of the replating.
There is a reason for the abundance of "fake" black paint Leica's, versus fake chrome ones. It is very difficult to match the original leica chrome finish!
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Thanks for the info. Guess I will keep looking.
 
I spent a while looking for a Chrome M4P then decided to go with a black one, I didn't think I'd end up liking it but now I think it's great.

Go figure. Good luck looking!
 
Powder coating is possible, but it is very difficult to control. On a small part like a top-plate you have to mask off everything (threads, windows etc) and not just once, but a couple of times. Powder coating also tends to "roll" over edges and you have to clean them with a high speed grinder.
Years ago I did a M4-P in deep purple and it was powder coated, both the top and the matching Rapidwinder. The labor involved in cleaning it up and getting it to fit after that cured me from this forever. the camera was a protest against Leica's deluge of "collectibles" and I did dedicate it to Jerry Garcia as the "Purple Haze" Leica. It now resides in Hong Kong. If you go to Cameraquest.com and look under "Tom's uncollectables" there is a shot of it in all its glory, deep purple top and winder, silver leather and Turquoise strap. It has all the class of a Pink Ferrari!
 
Tom A said:
Powder coating is possible, but it is very difficult to control. On a small part like a top-plate you have to mask off everything (threads, windows etc) and not just once, but a couple of times. Powder coating also tends to "roll" over edges and you have to clean them with a high speed grinder.
Years ago I did a M4-P in deep purple and it was powder coated, both the top and the matching Rapidwinder. The labor involved in cleaning it up and getting it to fit after that cured me from this forever. the camera was a protest against Leica's deluge of "collectibles" and I did dedicate it to Jerry Garcia as the "Purple Haze" Leica. It now resides in Hong Kong. If you go to Cameraquest.com and look under "Tom's uncollectables" there is a shot of it in all its glory, deep purple top and winder, silver leather and Turquoise strap. It has all the class of a Pink Ferrari!
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I was going to dismantle a recently acquired M3 and send the top and bottom plates to a local company that specializes in coatings to get it dechromed and powdercoated. I had a look at that camera on CQ and was surprised at how shiny and glossy it was! Can powder coating be done to give that duller, matted look (a la Leica finish)? It looks like the engravings were filled up too... Maybe I may want to reconsider the powder coat job... My understanding is powder coating is pretty durable stuff. What's your take on its durability?

(sorry for hijacking your thread, Artorius!)
 
There are a number of companies that chrome plate guns and parts. I had a couple of custom cometition pistols chromed and have been thinking of having my M3 done with brushed chrome and skate skin covering. Also the new trend in coatings for guns is ceramic coatings in almost any color. They're extremely durable. The last pistol I had chromed was around $125. You can also get a choice of polished, bead blasted satin or brushed. Even black chrome has been done on guns for the last 15 or so years.
 
Powder coating is extremely durable, but it is thicker than chome plating or well done painting. It is done with high heat (similar to enameling-which is basically melting glass!). Engravings tend to be filled in and it is extremely tough to clean up and once you "shatter" the surface with a grinding tool it chips.
The suggestion of using gun plating is interesting. I have never tried it, but it should be possible. Does the fact that the base is brass affect the process as most guns are either steel or highly specialized alloys?
Of course, anything can be done on anything - but there comes a point where the cost bears no resemblance to rational thought!
 
Tom, guns are typically finished by one of the following methods:

* Bluing (not practical for us, only works on steel)
* Plating with nickel or hard chrome (been there, done that)
* Parkerizing (a phosphating treatment, not pretty)
* Coating

It's the last that I think we may be able to filch from.

There have been a number of new epoxy-based industrial finishes that have come to market over the last decade or two. They tend to be extremely durable, thin, sprayable, and economical for home application. Two of the most common ones are DuraCoat and Gun Kote.

http://www.duracoat-firearm-finishes.com/

http://www.kgcoatings.com/gunkote.html

My personal experience has been with Gun Kote - I'd be happy to post a pic if everyone promises not to get their knickers in a wad from seeing an evil gun on RFF. :eek:

Both of these and others are readily available in small quantities through gunsmith supply houses like Brownell's. As a matter of fact, Brownell's also offers "baking lacquer", which I've heard makes a very nice camera finish.
 
Tom A said:
The suggestion of using gun plating is interesting. I have never tried it, but it should be possible. Does the fact that the base is brass affect the process as most guns are either steel or highly specialized alloys?
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I believe the gun platers put a base of copper on the steel before chrome plating. Brass should be no problem and most likely zinc with the copper over would plate well also. I've also thought of parkerizing one.
 
What a fantastic discussion! I'm glad this came up before I sent mine in for finishing.

While on the topic, what to do in the event there are significant dents and scuffs? I know smaller dents can be banged out with a mallet and some sort of block and tiny nicks will probably filled in with whatever's being used for the refinishing, but what about larger stuff (ie: a flattened corner that looks like it received the business end of a drop)? I read somewhere that automotive putties like Bondo can be used after the dechroming. Anyone have any experiences or can provide some insight? How does this react with the finishing process/materials? Durability?

Ken Ford said:
My personal experience has been with Gun Kote - I'd be happy to post a pic if everyone promises not to get their knickers in a wad from seeing an evil gun on RFF. :eek:
Click to expand...

I'd love to see a pic, particularily of any engravings that may be on the firearm.
 
sienarot said:
I'd love to see a pic, particularily of any engravings that may be on the firearm.
Click to expand...

OK, here's the pic I have readily available. This particular pistol was finished in a high-Boron bearing Gun Kote finish:

P7PSP.jpg
 
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