M5 vs M6 recommendation

[Lukesaurus]

In the next 6 months i am looking to buy a Leica , it needs to have a meter .

The 2 that I have my eyes on are the M5 and the M6 .

I'm leaning more towards the M5 as I like it a bit more and the fact that the M6 prices seem to have taken off recently .

How is the reliability of the 2 cameras ? I know the M5 uses a mercury battery but there are ways around that . How easy it is to do the conversion for 1.5 v ?

From what I searched the older M5's are considered more reliable while the first M6's are considered to be the better ones ? Is this correct ?

What are the most common issues with them ? Is there anything in particular I need to look out for ?

Thank you very much for your replies and i hope everyone stays safe .

 

[ccstearns]

Firstly, I have no experience with the M6 but am well versed with the M5, I've had 3 over the years and even though I've switched to digital (thanks COVID) Im still keeping my glorious first M5. I really think it's the best film camera ever made (but I've never used an M6 right??).

* The whole 128/129xxx serial number issue. You'll hear that those are not to be bought. This is only kinda true. You can find these cheaper as people are certain they will fail, and they might. If you buy one of these is must be overhauled by a trusted repair tech, either Sherry Krauter or Don Goldberg. I've worked with both and can be objective in a recommendation: Sherry all the way. I can expand on why later.

* The 128/129 versions only have two lugs for vertical carrying. I prefer this, some hate it.

* If you get one that is 134+: Unless you bought it with proof that it's been overhauled you still should send it. Specifically they can upgrade the voltage.

* Things to look out for: a sneaky thing is the rangefinder patch. These are now aging and beginning to fail. This summer I had Don replace one for the tune of $300. Stephen Gandy here at Camera Quest has a great write up about this here: https://www.cameraquest.com/m5.htm

* Sherry vs Don. They both take 6 to 12 months. They both have payment processes that are from a different era (checks or 'friend' PayPal). They both prefer phone over anything although Don will reply to email. But here is the kicker: Sherry loves the M5 and thinks it's the best Leica made and Don hates the camera and will talk at length about what a PITA to work on they are.

* maybe buy a solid M6?

 

[lukx]

I think a major factor is repairability. From what I've gathered it's becoming increasingly difficult to find someone who services M5s while the M6 (non-TTL?) seem to be easier to have serviced. Possibly depending on where you live. That has become a factor for me to consider when buying cameras.

But I agree that the M5 has a certain charme, being the odd one out.

 

[shorelineae]

The MR9 battery adapter can be used in the Leica M5 - https://www.35mmc.com/14/01/2015/mr-9-battery-adapter/

I used it before I sent my M5 to DAG for an overhaul and changed it to accept normal batteries.

It's a great camera by the way. If you like needle meters, you'll love it. I sold my M6 to get an M5 as I couldn't stand the red LED meters (among other things).

 

[raydm6]

I have never owned an M5 (but am curious to own one). I purchased an early M6 in 1985 and still own it.

Mine doesn't get heavy usage and the only problem I have with the camera is the paint bubbling issue but mine is minor and hasn't spread.

Have you seen these camera profiles from the RFF forum's host (Stephen - Head Bartender)

• M Buyer's Guide
• Purchasing Checklist
• Leica M5
• Leica M6

Hope you find the right one for you.

 

[splitimageview]

I've had both and prefer the M5. The match needle is far preferable to match diodes, which give insufficient indication of how far off the exposure is.

I find shutter speed visible in the viewfinder to be VERY useful.

The ergonomics of the M5 are better, with the overhanging shutter speed dial. Much easier to adjust with the camera at the eye, ready to shoot.

These cameras are 45+ years old, serial number ranges are a very minor or even irrelevant factor at this stage, any original factory issues were almost certainly addressed long ago. Just do the normal pre-purchase inspection or buy from a trusted seller, same as one would do with any M purchase. Or, take a flyer, you might get lucky. 🙂

The RF patch/viewfinder is really no more likely to fail on an M5 than on any other M, other than the possible factor that M5s are older. There are many techs who can fix prism failure now, if that were to happen.

Downsides to the M5 are larger size, and repairability, although there are many techs that can and do work on them.

The most important factor is to purchase a good working example....

I've owned a few M5s, all the meters worked and none required service. Ditto with M6.

M6 meter parts are still available, although they are not cheap.

Details regarding the M6 TTL, per Don Goldberg from April 2020:

"its very unusual for the Leica M6-TTL main circuit board to go bad, however if it does Leica, USA is the only place that has the needed software to adjust the M6-TTL board. The classic M6 camera does not need software to adjust it. There can be other things wrong with the M6-TTL meter system that can be repaired without replacing the main board or needing software.

regards,

Don
DAG"

Hope this helps!

 

[DennisM]

M6 vs M5

M6 vs M5

I have both. Go for the M6; it's more common; I purchased mine new in 1986 or so (chrome) and it has performed flawlessly ever since. The M5 while an admirable camera in many ways is someway quirky. Also, be aware of some potentially serious issues with M5's. One is a potentially faulty drum assembly I believe, not quite sure of the exact issue. When I sent mine to Sherry Krauter for a CLA she cautioned me that my serial number was in a range that was subject to this problem and if the problem occurred, repair would be costly; therefore did I want to proceed with the CLA? ( did). Seek out an M6 and you will be happy.

 

[Rob-F]

The M6 framelines are reduced in size to match the field of view at minimum focus distance of 0.7M (27.5"). That makes them undersize at any other distance. And the M6 50mm frameline is even smaller than that: it covers the same field, at a medium distance of, say, 12 feet, as a 60mm Macro-Elmar lens on an SLR. The M5, on the other hand, has perfect framelines at medium and long distance.

M5 framelines are 35mm, 50, 90, and 135mm. M6 has all of that plus 28mm and 75mm.

The M5 has almost a spot meter, making it very accurate, but requiring some interpretation or judgment; so it's slower to use. And it can't be used with some older wide angle lenses because it will break the meter stalk unless the lens is modified to not bring up the stalk--in which case you still can't meter with those lenses. The M6 can't meter with certain lenses, either, like the 21mm Super-Angulon (but there won't be any damage).

The M5 is bigger and heavier. That can be an advantage: It sits very solid in the hand for slow shutter speeds. Or it can be a nuisance, if you don't like the extra size & weight.

You can set the M5 shutter to in-between speeds. You can't do that with an M6. But the M5 has only 1/2 second slowest speed. It's 1 second on the M6. You can change shutter speeds on the M5 without taking the camera down from your eye. The speed even shows in the finder, which makes it even easier.

The ratcheting rewind crank on the M5 is a bit tricky. M6 crank is more straightforward.

It's better to get a later M5 than an early one. At the annual meeting in St. Louis, Sherry told us that the there's a problem with the large shutter drum on the early ones. "You don't have to run right out and sell it," she said, "It's just something to be aware of."

I have two M5s. When they need service or CLA, they go only to Sherry.

 

[Benjamin Marks]

I also have both and agree with everything that splitimageview wrote, except in his conclusion. The M5 is indeed a wonderfully engineered camera, and I would not sell mine. But on repairability alone, I'd go for the M6 (non-TTL) if I could only have one.

List of M5 tweaks that I love:

shutter speed in viewfinder
ratcheted rewind
VF less susceptible to back-light flare out than M6
shutter speed dial overhangs camera body-easier to change w/o looking
sideways lugs for shoulder hang
self timer

Advantages of M6:

rapidwinder/motor compatibility
smaller
newer
takes readily available batteries

You pays your money, and you takes your chances.

 

[punkzter]

I haven't tried an M5. I have an M6 like it quite a bit. The metering system is fine, though not great.

One thing that I find very attractive about the non-TTL M6 is that it's pretty much entirely repairable. It's my understanding that most of the internals can be replaced, including the meter circuits.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

With M5 you have to be ready to deal with bigger than it should be camera size and far from where it should be VF.
With M6 you are paying huge money, no, over paying huge money now for build in meter which doesn't speed up taking images process (comparing to on camera meter) and doesn't really needed if you are on scans.
With scans even S16 in doors is good enough due to film exposure latency and good scanners capabilities.
The only really big reason I'm finding with consistent exposures at one roll of the film is while printing in the darkroom.
If I would be fresh die hard with deep pockets, I would get M7. This is the only film M which allows to speed up image taking, not slowing it down.
Well, nothing wrong is in taking quick, rangefinder style images by M5/6 without wasting time on slow meters, either.
M5 reminds me aerodynamic public transit buses from aluminium. Big and cool looking apparatus (with aerodynamics not been really necessary).
And then I first saw M6, I didn't realized it was film M. I asked if it was Zeiss Ikon. Paint and covering didn't feel like classic Leitz to me.
Are you aware of zink bubbles?

 

[presspass]

I have had, and still have, my first M6. Bought used a year or so after they came out, it does not have the anti-rub pads by the strap eyelets and the eyepiece is metal and not rubber coated. It was repaired once, about 1991, when the bottom plate got bent and would randomly reset the frame counter. Since I used them professionally, I got two more to avoid running out of film or having to change lenses in the rain. Both are newer than the first. The Wetzlar-made one is fine; the Solms-made one is finicky. It will not mount my ZI 50 Sonnar, for instance. All have been reliable for years. I like the LED meter readout because it's visible in less than perfect light. For instance, it allowed me to set the meter at 2 a.m. at a house fire, something a needle meter setup wouldn't do. I have, and use, Rapidwinders on my M6s. They're especially nice in the winter and, with a Rapidgrip, make the camera easier to hold while wearing heavy gloves. As you can probably guess, I like my M6s and have never had the urge to replace them with M5s.

 

[KoNickon]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the tendency of the M6 rangefinder patch to flare. This is especially true in lower light situations where there is a strong light source from the side, I've found. This is fixable, but be forewarned -- it can be quite annoying.

 

[Pál_K]

...
* The whole 128/129xxx serial number issue. You'll hear that those are not to be bought. This is only kinda true. You can find these cheaper as people are certain they will fail, and they might.

...

* If you get one that is 134+: Unless you bought it with proof that it's been overhauled you still should send it. Specifically they can upgrade the voltage...

Are the 128xxx/129xxx or pre-134xxx M5's the ones with shutter drum issues? I've searched the net, but couldn't find any information other than "early" M5's had the issue and Leica, at the time, would automatically replace the drum on any M5 sent in for a CLA.

 

[Bill Blackwell]

Personally I much prefer the M6, but I've been using Leica M bodies for 50 years. However, if you've never, or rarely, shot with an M camera the M5 might suit you well - and you'll like the price better too (an M5 can be had for about half the price of a comparably conditioned M6).

 

[ktmrider]

Have owned both with the M5 being the most recent. The M6 is very usable but I find the viewfinder cluttered. Someone already stated the frame lines are not as accurate as the M5. I have never owned a 28 or 75 in M mount and prefer the M5 finder.

You would not be making a mistake with either purchase. It is my understanding that Leitz started to design the M5 shortly after the M3 premiered so you are looking at a decade of design and development on the M5 with overhanging shutter dial, shutter visible in finder, incredible meter etc.

If you can get access to each and shoot a couple rolls you will be able to tell much better then advice here as everybody has their preferences. I prefer the M5 but honestly the M2 is my favorite primarily due to the viewfinder. In fact I traded my M5 for an M2 and the M5 has become the favorite of the gentleman I traded with.

 

[Lukesaurus]

Thank you all for the responses . I live in Europe so it would be tricky to send the camera over to the States but not impossible. Anyone knows if there is someone who repairs M5’s in Europe ? Glad to hear the MR-9 works as i have one for my Canonet .

I was planning a trip to Germany and Austria so it seems like a great opportunity to visit the Leica and other camera stores there .

Anyone knows if you get warranty for used items bought from a Leica store ?

I think i will go with the M5 as I don’t mind the extra weight , and i can buy one plus a pretty good lens for the price of an M6 .

On the M6 is the general consensus to buy a non TTL version ?

Curious about this as well

Are the 128xxx/129xxx or pre-134xxx M5's the ones with shutter drum issues? I've searched the net, but couldn't find any information other than "early" M5's had the issue and Leica, at the time, would automatically replace the drum on any M5 sent in for a CLA.

 

[jmilkins]

When you put it like that Lukesaurus, (a camera and lens or just camera) it becomes even more favourable to the M5.

My ratio of M5 to M6 bodies is 2:1 - I like them, although I like all the Ms I've tried for different reasons.

But us Aussies like an underdog...

 

[David Hughes]

...Anyone knows if you get warranty for used items bought from a Leica store ?

I think i will go with the M5 as I don’t mind the extra weight , and i can buy one plus a pretty good lens for the price of an M6 .

On the M6 is the general consensus to buy a non TTL version ?

Curious about this as well

As I see it the guarantee or not depends on the store; so you need to do a bit of research before the trip.


As for the TTL question that really depends on how often you use flash. Most of us can manage without it using a modern flash or even an elderly 1970's one that has to be set up with ISO and aperture and then runs automatically. These days they give them away on ebay...



Regards, David

 

[twvancamp]

I think most major points have been touched on. I'll only add that the M5 is not compatible with a handful of M mount lenses. The metering arm gets in the way of large rear elements.

In itself this is a small thing unless you love collapsable lenses, but it points to how the M5 sometimes leaves you out of the M "ecosystem." May or may not be an issue.

As others have said, I love my M5 despite its issues (light leak and failing frame lines). It's hard to describe just how nice it handles and how easy it makes shooting.

I can't imagine why every camera doesn't have an overhanging shutter speed dial.