M6 Classic or M5?

[Erik van Straten]

Really? I think that's the M4.

No, the M5 was the last Leica made in the classical way in Wetzlar by Leitz trained technicians.

Erik.

 

[jsrockit]

No, the M5 was the last Leica made in the classical way in Wetzlar by Leitz trained technicians.

Erik.

Right, but I'm not so sure it's a classic. Classics don't usually have poor sales success. Seems there's some revisionist history going on in here. 😉

 

[Erik van Straten]

Right, but I'm not so sure it's a classic.

In fact the M5 was well under way when Leitz introduced the M4. Leitz introduced the M4 because the M3 was too expensive to produce and to sell. Many people bought a Japanese SLR in those days. The M2 sold better. The M4 is only an updated M2. It took Leitz much longer to introduce the M5 than anticipated. There are prototypes of the M5 with the indication "M4" on them, so from before 1967. The M5 was introduced four years later.

Erik.

 

[Markus B]

Don't make this an M4 vs M5 theard, it is a M5 vs M6 theard 😉

 

[Robert Lai]

For me, the small size of the shutter speed dial in the M6 classic is a turn off. The overhanging shutter speed dial of the M5 is the best of them all.

I own M2, M3, M4-2, M5, and M7. So I speak from experience.

 

[Huss]

The M5 was such a colossal failure that it almost destroyed the company. Bringing back the M4 saved it. Case closed.

The few pros who use Leicas embraced the M5 - which can be seen by how the majority of the ones on the used market have seen serious action. Problem is that pros do not make up the majority of Leica owners.

I have a whole bunch of Ms, and the M5 is by far the best user for those who just want to get the shot, than worry about how the camera looks displayed on a table while sitting outside a coffee shop.

Anyone notice how the Zeiss Ikon looks like an M5? Copied the shape, even the placement on the film rewind crank.

 

[jsrockit]

In fact the M5 was well under way when Leitz introduced the M4. Leitz introduced the M4 because the M3 was too expensive to produce and to sell. Many people bought a Japanese SLR in those days. The M2 sold better. The M4 is only an updated M2. It took Leitz much longer to introduce the M5 than anticipated. There are prototypes of the M5 with the indication "M4" on them, so from before 1967. The M5 was introduced four years later.

Erik.

Erik, I don't doubt your superior knowledge of Leica history. I was just saying it doesn't seem to be a classic like the traditional M cameras are. It seems to get more love these days, but there was a time when it seemed to be hated.

 

[Robert Lai]

Erik is mentioning that the M5 was assembled "in the classical way at Wetzlar". This was the old fashioned fit and finish way, with craftsmen making individual adjustments as they assemble the camera.

The M4-2 introduced the new and current way of replaceable modular components. If a part didn't work, you just put a new part in, not adjust things to make it work.

 

[Erik van Straten]

there was a time when it seemed to be hated.

I remember the time before the M6 was introduced. In those days a ten year old M5 was more expensive than a new M4-P. It is going up and down with the M5!

Erik.

 

[bhop73]

I voted M5 because I like to save money.

 

[Benjamin Marks]

You have to think of the M5 as a camera that had to live through its marketing failure for photographers to recognize its greatness. Or put another way, it was the camera that Leica users were too stupid to know they wanted. I have both and love both. I had the M6 from about 1994 . . . bought it lightly used and loved everything about it having used two M3's for about two years before that. But if you forget for a moment that the M5 was sandwiched in between the M4 and the M6, and just hold the thing in your hand, look through the viewfinder and wind on the advance lever . . .man, there are just so many refinements in that camera. It is like loving a car from the 60's with fins and a carburetor, and an engine that purrs like a panther even though you know your modern Civic gets better gas mileage and is, ultimately, more reliable.

Now in the poll above, and despite my affection for the M5, I chose the M6. Why? Smaller profile, Rapidwinder and Motor-M compatibility etc. And, as they say, it ain't the years, its the mileage. All things being equal, I would choose the newer machine to take me reliably down the road. But I will never sell that M5 . . . love it warts and all.

 

[jsrockit]

I remember the time before the M6 was introduced. In those days a ten year old M5 was more expensive than a new M4-P. It is going up and down with the M5!

I see. I will admit, I bought my first Leica (M4-2 followed quickly by a M6) in 1992.

 

[danielsterno]

Every Leica film enthusiast should at least try the M5. The M5 is in fit and finish a grade higher than the other M cameras. The frames in the viewfinder are just perfect. The lightmeter gives more information about the light than the lightmeter of the M6 and is never distracting. The meter is just there if you want to consult it. You can read the shutterspeed in the viewfinder. You can change the shutterspeed without taking the camera from your eye. The release of the shutter is smoother than that of the M6. You can use all intermediate speeds. Loading and rewinding the film is faster (if you know how to do it). The pictures are sharper because there is less shutter vibration. It is simply a better camera than the M6. Watch out, when you try it you are addicted. See the work of the great Japanese photographer Junku Nishimura. He too uses the M5. The rangefinder never flares. 1/8 sec is easy done handheld. There is a self timer. The frame counter has white numerals on a black background, reads much easier. There are no double frames in the finder.

Erik.

All very well said, I own both the M5&M6 which are my only M's, most of the time I carry one at a time BUT have gone out with both around my neck, one with a 50mm and other a 35mm. only minor feature not mentioned is the M5's rewind lever is ratcheted and on the base plate……. good luck

 

[mikyor1]

I have an M4 and M5 and just for the hell of it a Canon P,

And I have to say, it really does grow on you. I just bought it without forethought because it was priced really well. Pulled the trigger and now all my cameras (digital gear, medium format gear, and other rangefinders) collect dust.

It just really fits in your hand perfectly.
-no zinc bubbling
-last hand fitted wetzlar camera
-PERFECT ergonomics, really. You wont know until you hold it. Its really that perfect.
-To the designers, this was the ultimate, they changed it because they were that confident it was the best design. unfortunately the market was cannibalized via leica CL and rise of the SLR
-ratcheted bottom rewind
-SPOT METER
-ergonomics (really that good)
-side lugs
-viewfinder is simply amazing

no hate on the M6, but according to sherry, she thinks its crap because they took out rangefinder frame so it flares easily, and scorned leica for selling it for 250 to add into to M6, she also said its filled with plastic bits, she also stated most of her work is from M6's

just do it and get a M5, you already have a classic body without metering, why not get a shooter with metering, its that good, you will have NO regrets.

 

[traveler_101]

The M5 was a commercial failure, not a technical failure. Its market was destroyed by the stupid move from Leitz to introduce the CL. The CL was bought by many potential M5 buyers, but it was in fact an unreliable product from wich Minolta profited more than Leitz.


Erik.

Not an expert (to say the least) but this seems correct. It appears that the M5 was one of Leica's evolutionary design leaps - III series > M3 + M2 > M5. After that Leica went "retro" going back to what became the "classic" M3 style with the M4 and the cameras that followed. What was behind the poor M5 sales? Just a guess - M5 must have been too expensive for the market to bear; it was impacted by the emergence of the excellent Nikon SLR as well as Leica's own cheaper alternative.

 

[Erik van Straten]

The last problem is that the cameras before S/N 135,xxx can potentially have serious manufacturing issues.

This assertion is absolutely not substantiated by technicians I know who were responsible for the repair department of the Dutch Leitz importer ODIN.

The meter works fine nowadays with an AR-9 adapter and a Duracell 386/301 silver oxyde battery. Mine works now for one year perfectly without ever being replaced.

Erik.

 

[FrozenInTime]

Some interesting comparisons here - including IIIf vs M6 vs M5 images

https://www.cameraquest.com/m5.htm

The ergonomic consistency across the M3,M2,M4,M4-2,M4-P,M6,M8,M9 etc. wins for me.

 

[cz23]

Question for you M5 folks:

Is there a workaround to carry a 2-lug version horizontally, or is a 3-lug model required? Thanks.

John

 

[michaelwj]

Every Leica film enthusiast should at least try the M5. The M5 is in fit and finish a grade higher than the other M cameras. The frames in the viewfinder are just perfect. The lightmeter gives more information about the light than the lightmeter of the M6 and is never distracting. The meter is just there if you want to consult it. You can read the shutterspeed in the viewfinder. You can change the shutterspeed without taking the camera from your eye. The release of the shutter is smoother than that of the M6. You can use all intermediate speeds. Loading and rewinding the film is faster (if you know how to do it). The pictures are sharper because there is less shutter vibration. It is simply a better camera than the M6. Watch out, when you try it you are addicted. See the work of the great Japanese photographer Junku Nishimura. He too uses the M5. The rangefinder never flares. 1/8 sec is easy done handheld. There is a self timer. The frame counter has white numerals on a black background, reads much easier. There are no double frames in the finder.

Erik.

I agree with everything Erik says, but will add that I find the VF eyepiece too far inboard, making my nose uncomfortable on the left side of the camera. I just find it really painful to look through. It's also big and ugly 😀 so my vote is for an M6.

But you should at least try an M5 if you are considering it. You Amy end up with a fleet of M5s!

 

[BillBingham2]

Question for you M5 folks:

Is there a workaround to carry a 2-lug version horizontally, or is a 3-lug model required? Thanks.

John

I remember someone making a half case out there for folks looking for such a feature, but now who/where.

B2(;->