aizan
Veteran
when someone wants a leica just because it's a leica, that's when you gotta open the windows and let some fresh air in. been there, done that. take leica lust out of the equation and see what happens.
M6 or M7
- Thread starter Patman
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There is nothing wrong with wanting a Leica though. I have handled both the ZI and M7, all things being equal, no Leica Lust, if I were to choose one today it would be the M7. All things being equal of course meaning price. That is just a choice.
As far as lenses go I think that is a different animal. I think all arguments about the difference in build quality is all BS. Modern Leica lens build quality sucks (I probably should edit that to say "inhales vigorously") compared to the lenses of the 1950 and 60s when they earned their reputation. I don't think there is much of a difference in build quality between the current big 3 brands. Optically there is a difference. I think when it comes to lenses you should choose the one that best produces the image qualities you like, be that a Summicron, Ultron or Biogon.
As far as lenses go I think that is a different animal. I think all arguments about the difference in build quality is all BS. Modern Leica lens build quality sucks (I probably should edit that to say "inhales vigorously") compared to the lenses of the 1950 and 60s when they earned their reputation. I don't think there is much of a difference in build quality between the current big 3 brands. Optically there is a difference. I think when it comes to lenses you should choose the one that best produces the image qualities you like, be that a Summicron, Ultron or Biogon.
aizan
Veteran
lust isn't the best way to go about getting a camera for everyday use. save that energy for collecting!
things being what they are, why would anyone get an m7 instead of a zi? heck, i'd still pick the zi if the price was raised to equal the m7.
things being what they are, why would anyone get an m7 instead of a zi? heck, i'd still pick the zi if the price was raised to equal the m7.
Overall I think the ZI is an excellent camera. There is more "known" about Leica for me, I own an M6TTL, I am used to and trust the "technology" used by Leica at this point. The meter in my M6 is deadly accurate. It was very easy to get used to and learn how to use it because it is so consistent. Leica's track record proves that they build cameras to last forever. I like bottom loading of film, in my eyes it is easier than back door loading. The difference in the shutter sound is not a big deal to me, but the 7 is quieter. I think the ZI viewfinder is better than the Leica's, and time will prove if the RF is equal (staying in alignment and stuff over time).
I guess if I were designing the ZI I would have built the M7, the form and more importantly the function. Time most likely will prove that in fact this is exactly what Zeiss did. Today though, if I had to make a choice, price being equal, I would pick the M7.
But price isn't equal which means a lot and would be a deciding factor if I was shopping right now, though I would be considering a used M7 which would close the gap some.
I guess if I were designing the ZI I would have built the M7, the form and more importantly the function. Time most likely will prove that in fact this is exactly what Zeiss did. Today though, if I had to make a choice, price being equal, I would pick the M7.
But price isn't equal which means a lot and would be a deciding factor if I was shopping right now, though I would be considering a used M7 which would close the gap some.
Patman
Established
This is a direct quote from an article on the web:
1. Kyocera pulled the plug on Contax killing 4 Carl Zeiss lens lines in 1 stroke, Contax RTS manual focus 35mm SLR lenses, Contax N AF 35mm SLR lenses, Contax G 35mm RangeFinder lenses, and Contax 645 MF-AF lenses. That's a hugh hit to Carl Zeiss.
2. Hasselblad currently seems more keen on pushing the Fuji/Fujinon derived H system cameras & lenses, at the expense of their more traditional V system using CZ lenses.
3. Rollei 6008 system started with CZ lenses, but subsequently began to offer Schneider lenses as well, also eroding sales of Rollei/Zeiss MF lenses.
4. Alpa switched from the Biogon 38mm lens to a Apo-Helvitar 48mm lens made for them by Schneider.
The last decade had not been too good for Carl Zeiss stills camera lens production... So it would be only logical for Carl Zeiss to look towards the creation of a premium niche lens line for the millions of Nikon F mount cameras in use.
- Barrett[/QUOTE]
1. Kyocera pulled the plug on Contax killing 4 Carl Zeiss lens lines in 1 stroke, Contax RTS manual focus 35mm SLR lenses, Contax N AF 35mm SLR lenses, Contax G 35mm RangeFinder lenses, and Contax 645 MF-AF lenses. That's a hugh hit to Carl Zeiss.
2. Hasselblad currently seems more keen on pushing the Fuji/Fujinon derived H system cameras & lenses, at the expense of their more traditional V system using CZ lenses.
3. Rollei 6008 system started with CZ lenses, but subsequently began to offer Schneider lenses as well, also eroding sales of Rollei/Zeiss MF lenses.
4. Alpa switched from the Biogon 38mm lens to a Apo-Helvitar 48mm lens made for them by Schneider.
The last decade had not been too good for Carl Zeiss stills camera lens production... So it would be only logical for Carl Zeiss to look towards the creation of a premium niche lens line for the millions of Nikon F mount cameras in use.
- Barrett[/QUOTE]
Patman
Established
I got my first Leica in 1968, a IIIf and have been using them ever since. Got an M3 in 1972/ Still have them both and in excellent condition. Neither has ever been serviced and never has one of them ever failed me. Why would I change manufactuers?
I'm not knocking Zeiss but I feel all other 35mm RF are basically a rip off of Leicas. That doesn't make them bad but in my eyes not as good!
I'm not knocking Zeiss but I feel all other 35mm RF are basically a rip off of Leicas. That doesn't make them bad but in my eyes not as good!
MCTuomey
Veteran
Patman said:
Well done. I'd be interested to hear once you've had it awhile whether you find yourself depending on the AE or working manually. Also other impressions, of course.
peter_n
Veteran
Mike I've had mine for about 6 months. Coming from an M6TTL at first I switched on the AE and used it all the time, but after a while I used it more selectively. I still use it more than 50% of the time. As someone mentioned above, it is great to see the stepless shutter speed in the VF and as long as you're not backlit the meter is as accurate as it is in the M6TTL, which means amazingly accurate. I really like the camera and the M6 is now a (very trusty) backup.
The shutter on the M7 is very slightly quieter than on the M6TTL. I have two M7s and the VFs are both the MP style, a definite improvement. So much so I'm considering getting the M6 upgraded. I'm very happy with mine and would recommend the body to anyone if there is an interest in AE.
The shutter on the M7 is very slightly quieter than on the M6TTL. I have two M7s and the VFs are both the MP style, a definite improvement. So much so I'm considering getting the M6 upgraded. I'm very happy with mine and would recommend the body to anyone if there is an interest in AE.
amateriat
We're all light!
Patman: points well-taken, but events (1) through (4) have little bearing in terms of CZ's reputation for delivering the goods in terms of quality product. Remember, particularly at this point in time, optical quality is hardly the sole criterion determining who makes the cut in the world of optics; contractural issues, such as Kyocera and CZ squabbled over before the former decided to suddenly pack up its tent and go home (just as it did in the consumer audio arena a decade previous...you might say their reputation precedes them), loom somewhat larger. Hasselblad going with Fuji for the H1 lenses seems more like a classic package deal: Fuji's making the body, and they also know their way around MF lenses, so why not? "Preference" in these cases is driven largely by convenience and market expediency, and, for Hassy, getting a sleek, slick, and particularly digital-friendly system to market pronto trumped any other consideration. Also, particularly in the case of Alpa, the maximizing of options makes a given system stronger in the eyes of a seasoned pro, hence, for the Alpa 12, there are four lens brands offered, whose capabilities don't necessarily overlap.
So, no, Zeiss doesn't own the show, as it were; taking in the big picture, they rarely if ever did. It's likely been less of an issue for Zeiss than it's been to others who follow the ever-changing whims and fancies of the camera business.
And, as much as I disdain SLRs for general use these days, I wouldn't mind bolting a ZF lens on an F3 to try out for fun.
Good luck with the M7. Take pictures early and often!
- Barrett
So, no, Zeiss doesn't own the show, as it were; taking in the big picture, they rarely if ever did. It's likely been less of an issue for Zeiss than it's been to others who follow the ever-changing whims and fancies of the camera business.
And, as much as I disdain SLRs for general use these days, I wouldn't mind bolting a ZF lens on an F3 to try out for fun.
Good luck with the M7. Take pictures early and often!
- Barrett
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MCTuomey
Veteran
peter_n said:
Thanks, Peter. 🙂
I agree totally; especially where the lighting can differ dramatically and suddenly from one shot to the next, AE is a picture saver. For many, this is not an attractive idea either from the standpoint of operational purism or dependence on batteries. But in camera shopping I'd give preference to AE, a feature I've valued for decades... from Pentax ES through Minolta CLE to Bronica RF645... and I think the M7 and Z-I are attractive choices partly for that reason.Avotius said:
Red Rock Bill
Well-known
Good morning from snowy Gallup,NM. I've used an M-2 and 35,50 coll. and 90 coll. from the same era, forever. Bought an M-7 last year and have not looked back.Love putting that shutter dial on auto. I did use my friends M-6 prior to purchase. Didn't like it.Regards,Bill
aizan
Veteran
hmm...for practicality's sake, the m3 and zi shutter speed dials go in the same direction. the m7 goes backwards. what else.....
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