M6 TTL or MP

[mervynyan]

merv, the m6 ttl's descendant, the m7, is the most high-end model in the existing lineup, if you don't count the m8. the mp was designed to satisfy the fondlers, a good move on leica's part.

no, m7 is not the most high-end, as price can test, it is just different. when I bought the MP, two of them were priced indentically, the choice was if you want fully manual or semi-auto, for most of rffers, it is obvious.

with all due respect of m7, same build quality, easy to learn AP, but it limits the shutter speed when there is no power, what are they thinking, couldn't they put a full manual mode in place, after all, many others have done so. If that is the case, i will all get m7 in a heart beat. it reminds me Olympus OM-10, AP only. On OM-10, you can at least find a manual adaptor to operate in fully manual. Obviously it is not fair to compare these two, so when MP came along, it was good news.

if you pick leica, aren't we all fondlers?

 

[colinh]

I will ring on this bell....

I usually do ont respond to these types of things, as I feel it helps little all the opinions and sentiments vary greatly.

However, I can only recount my story, hoping it will help in some way...and yes I am aware of all comments people say about the models/comparisons, etc., but I, without stars in my eyes, continue to attest to the following.

the MP genuniely feels differently. I own/owned an M6 ttl also. Upon winding the advance one time on the MP, I said to myself, "whoa". Like butter. (and my ttl is recently CLA's by DAG).

The MP is built like a tank.

[...]

The M3 is arguably the best Leica ever made.

These are options I highly recommend fwiw. I do not know your level of experience, but you will not regret this, and will if you don't go this route in the future ( I feel this strongly about these aspects mentioned above).


Regardless, have fun and best of luck.
D

It's confounded posts like this that made me buy an M7 and then an M3. Now I'm going to have to get an MP. Arrrrgh.

I've been playing with a la carte, just to get the standard MP with racing green. Should I get the MP, or should I go on holiday to Rome with the family for a couple of weeks, in a nice hotel...

Hard choice.

colin

 

[demian]

Thank you for your kindness. I apologize for length. The learning curve is a steep one isn't it?

No, upon re-reading I do not feel I did any justice to my thoughts on this topic.

I suppose why I have forsaken the world of words for the world of images...

At any rate, returned quickly to post these links if the fellow is still following this thread.. No, I have absolutely no affiliation whatsoever and perhaps it is unwise to do so due to bad taste, however, if to do over again....besides I believe all will be interested in what I am referring to here and it is an option for present or future M2-4 owners.

I emailed the fellow and inquired as to the cost of said work. $750.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Leica-M2-Black-...ryZ30030QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/LEITZ-LEICA-M3-...ryZ30030QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem




Better yet, here are the images from present said auction(s) attached.


How I know what it is like searching for information.....for future reference within the search engine...


Again, no affiliation at all. But if to do over again or without a reasonable option (wow..attaching links viewed a new BP MP selling for $3500..whoa), I would make myself an MP.


Now I am no longer concerned about wear and tear, but getting robbed!

ciao

kind regards
D

 

[NoTx]

Wondering the same a while back... I went with the M6TTL (Last 999). I like it... and I didn't like the knob on the MP

 

[martin-f5]

It's confounded posts like this that made me buy an M7 and then an M3. Now I'm going to have to get an MP. Arrrrgh.

I've been playing with a la carte, just to get the standard MP with racing green. Should I get the MP, or should I go on holiday to Rome with the family for a couple of weeks, in a nice hotel...

Hard choice.

colin

No, that's not realy a hard choice,
by a MP and visit Rome next year.
They tould me not to delete Rome the next 12 month

 

[demian]

Wondering the same a while back... I went with the M6TTL (Last 999). I like it... and I didn't like the knob on the MP

Well, I hate to be mr. sunshine, however, Leica had theh right idea to end "M" production with the knob rewind.

I cannot list references (as I cannot remember all the locations), however, I have read in several places National Geographic photographers specifically complaining to Leica about the M4 style rewind knobs breaking on them all too often.

Leica has stated while marketing the MP that "professional photographers" influenced their decision on its use.

Ihad read from some photogs. it was the only problem they ever had with their cameras over the years.

Again, from what I have read....fwiw.

Ok, I am done now. Apologies to hijack thread.

kind regards
D

 

[colinh]

No, that's not realy a hard choice,
by a MP and visit Rome next year.

That sounds very sensible. They'll appreciate it more next year anyway. As long as I don't find myself needing a Summilux-M 35/1.4 ASPH ...



colin

 

[trph_2000]

I am fortunate to have an MP as well as an M6 LHSA black paint
and they indeed do feel a bit different. The M6 is a few mm taller
than the MP and you can tell the difference when you hold them
one after the other. The MP also feels a bit more solid and better balanced.

 

[Sailor Ted]

Unless you have the need for TTL flash photography do you really have to ask?

 

[Robert]

I would have always liked to have an MP but having an M6 I can't justify an MP.

If I was buying a new Leica I would almost certainly buy an MP.

 

[Magus]

Post deleted by posters request

 

[Turtle]

I might not get as excited as Magus, but do in essence agree with his last post; the MP is not only a great camera in use, but what a Leic ought to be in terms of build and feel. The M is not just for fondlers. I dont fondle, I use; however when a camera is destined to be in your hands a lot it makes sense to get the one that feels right for you, for whatever reason, however silly. For me, despite aparrent 'backwards' nature of the MP, it wa an obvious choice and one which I was so happy with I bought second MP body soon after.

Of course Pros favour the angled winder as it is faster, but then again how many of us shoot 100 rolls a day? I prefer the cleaner lines and greater simplicity of the MP knob and am able to spare the extra 10 seconds rewinding each roll.

 

[irq506]

I have both and modified my M6 classic to match the MP in terms of the upgraded viewfinder optics and solid rewind lever. If you want acompromise you can still find the Millenium M6 's which have the same top plate functions as the MP.
Robert White in the UK has one but it will cost you more than an MP.

How did you get this? I cant imagine that its a simple case of replacing that top plate with a vertical knob one as the entire mechanism is different from the top of the film chamber up... ...and I cant imagine it was cheap either. Also now that you actually have these mods whats the fundamental differences between the two considering you have the VF, transport crank and rewind knob sorted....?

 

[Simon Larbalestier]

How did you get this? I cant imagine that its a simple case of replacing that top plate with a vertical knob one as the entire mechanism is different from the top of the film chamber up... ...and I cant imagine it was cheap either. Also now that you actually have these mods whats the fundamental differences between the two considering you have the VF, transport crank and rewind knob sorted....?

I got it all work done by Don at DAG Camera and also CLA'd the M6 at the same time. Like i said earlier i meant film advance lever not rewind knob

The only difference between the two in usage is the MP has red spot as well as the two arrows, a modified rewind crank lever and it's black paint.
In use when i work quickly switching between the two bodies feels less different than before and there is no flare from the M6. The film advance on the MP is smoother but the M6 is much improved from what it was.

 

[irq506]

From Magus No question, irq, none at all. Old-style knob it should be.

I agree.

35 'lux
Which one are you after?

-Id like the M-Asph but Ill take anything thats recent f1.4

It would cost you a substantial amount, since the à la carte top-plate would have to be used (same difference in body height as M6TTL), and that means Solms, unless of course one of the reliable people (DAG, Sherry, CRR Luton, etc.) happens to have one.

We have one.

Hmm... Caution! I don't remember the differences offhand at the moment, but there should be differences between the ones fitted on the M6TTL, MP and M7...

Good to know -Im sure my tech knows this but I havent even got a Leica yet and dont know anything except that the RF camera I have right now whet my apetite for RF substanially, and its dying after 6 months and 300 rolls of film.

Yes, but the MP is available in a beautiful silver chrome, too. Unless of course you are implying that you only like black chrome.

Yes thats it, I want it black chrome or grand piano. If I had th emoney Id go ala carte and get a black chrome one without any engravings at all.

MPs all have brass; M6TTLs have zince except for certain ones among the so-called "999" edition (last 999 M6TTLs produced with assorted tweaks), which have brass. Beware, though, they are available only with 0.58 and 0.85 magnification viewfinders - no 0.72 if that's what you want.

Is the Black Chrome a la carte Zinc or Brass -me thinks its Zinc .....????????


Which settles it. Either second-hand silver chrome MP and you get the upright knob or black chrome M6TTL and you'll have to make do with the slanted knob.

No 45 rewind for me and no chrome for me either -well chrome and a roll of Gaffers from Freestyle.biz

As Alkis likes to say, with cameras and lenses everything is compromise...

Fair point. But its a leica, its not much of a compromise to begin with.

Best to you and happy, inspired choosing,
Thanks.

 

[irq506]

If the money is a factor, then the M6TTL is the way to go. If you're going to use the camera as heavily as you say, the black paint finish is a bit too delicate, and shows every fingerprint and smudge. Go with either chrome or black chrome.

And the TTL shutter speed dial is a big improvement over the smaller MP dial, which is a nice nod to Leica's past, but not nearly as functional. (flame away!)

I had DAG remove all but the 35, 50 and 90 frames from my TTL when he did the finder upgrade. The black dot and the M3-style wind lever were vanity, but they sure did look nice!

Yours does look nice. If I were to be using this camera for hobby work only then Id love the grand piano gloss or even the chrome, but I need its silence and its ability for me to hide it up my sleeve and aquire images from the shadows. I also just dont want it to be a "target" or an advertisement that Im a PHOTOGRAPHER using a LEICA. Its not the looks of the MP Im after but the functionality and yet it has to be robust. I have seen far too many M cameras come in to me for repairs over just a year which have had anything from drops to very mild dings on that 45d rewind, and the result is absolutley disasterous, not to mention an expensive repair.

 

[Turtle]

There really is not a lot of glare coming off the BP finish I can assure you! I have two BP cameras and unless you remove the fingerprints religiously and polish, general handling reduces the shininess even before natural abrasion results in dulling anyway. whichever way you look at it, BP is still far less conspicuous than silver chrome. The only issue with the finish is wear and I could not give a rats about that. Had black chrome been available as std and therfore I were able to get hold of the cameras as grey imports, I would have gone for black chrome. I was not prepared to pay nearly $1000 extra for an a la carte Black Chrome finish over the BP grey import price!

 

[irq506]

new or minted MP is the ultimate choice, because /
1) there is no more high-end model in existing lineup...
2) there is no more high-end model in existing lineup..
3) there is no more high-end model in existing lineup.

There will be no more temptation a year from now. even if you have million dollars, no where you can spend on a body (2 body is not better than 1-), just bite the bullet, postpone the purchase for few months, think it over.

If you can rationalize the DSLR, MP is within reach.

cheers, mervyn

I totally agree, only that I have already spent many tens of thousands of dollars on digital cameras which I use for other work and that money was money well spent. But now I have a new life and no money, and now I want a Leica... haha.

Why do you say that there will be no temptation a year from now? Do you know something I dont know?

 

[irq506]

if you're really concerned about robustness, i would think you're also concerned about ease of use. the angled rewind crank is favored by practically every professional shooter for this reason. tom abrahamsson prefers the "more robust" rewind knob (you probably got this idea from him), but he acknowledges their primary weakness by always using accessory rewind cranks on them.

merv, the m6 ttl's descendant, the m7, is the most high-end model in the existing lineup, if you don't count the m8. the mp was designed to satisfy the fondlers, a good move on leica's part.

Im concerned about ease of use, but not at the expense of robustness. I really dont care if the 45d crank is favored by practically every other photographer or professional photographer out there, its not my bag. I dont care that every other professional photographer out there prefers it one wway or another, I care about me, and for me I want the knob.

I propbably got this idea from Abrahamson? Wow thats a little assumptive now isnt it? I got it from my tech who fixes leicas and Hasselblads and has done for 34 years, he shows me the guts of them all, and of all the Leicas its either film chips in the transport mech, bent transport levers, RF alignments or that bloody 45d rewinder, and those are 95% of the Leica repairs, and within that, that 45d rewinder is the worst case scenario, and represents an expensive repair, light leaked film, and the inability to actually continue shooting if impact has occurred, plus the fact that you cant retrieve your film if you are half way through the roll.
The joint needs to be shimmed and lubricated constantly, and this effects forward transport which manifests itself generally around frame 12 because it drags on the film in the cannister (of a 36 roll).
I know what Im talking about, no I didnt get it from perusing the internet and forming my opinions from other peoples opinions, I got it from experience.

I want the knob.

The MP satisfies the fondlers? Are you a wannbe fondler?

 

[irq506]

I will ring on this bell....

I have and want only one body which I intend to use for life...

It becomes such a personal thing which develops its own history. Your history, becoming more and more attractive as it does.

One could never sell it or part with it....it becomes an old friend.

I have absolutely no problem with scratches, wear, etc. Free of all of that nonsense.

That mentality one must break from otherwise one will NEVER grow in their personal work. I am further moving that direction with lenses as well. As long as it has fine optics, I don't give a d@mn if it has barrel wear.



However, the camera is non-negotiable.

Further, this is the last mechanical M. Do you realize the implications of that historically?

I purchased mine new/used 3 years ago for $1900 from a guy off of pnet.

I see them now selling easily online for $27-2900. With patience, a lot of patience perhaps, I am sure you may find one for sale again. The value will donothing but increase...if you are into that kind of thing.

Used or not, get it. It is far more refined than the M6 series. You will not regret it. you will love it, grow with it. It is a very personal machine that becomes part of you in time.

My goodness, to have the modern oprion of black paint over brass. There is no option here...Don't settle.

If to do over again, well, one apparently doesn't find many of these for sale.

I have recently seen a black paint M3 for sale on the auction site.

It was redone by a very famous Japanese fellow that specializes in stripping the chrome and baking black lacquer in the traditional manner.

It looked fantastic, and was selling for $1300 or so.

The Japanese as you know are obsessed with Leica. This fellow is world reknowned.

No it is not "original" if you wish to look up the serial numbers, but who on earth cares. It was genuinely beautiful, and very well done.

The M3 is arguably the best Leica ever made.

These are options I highly recommend fwiw. I do not know your level of experience, but you will not regret this, and will if you don't go this route in the future ( I feel this strongly about these aspects mentioned above).


Regardless, have fun and best of luck.
D

Demian, fantastic, you are right there with me. You have the right words at the right time, exactly what I needed.

I love "non negotiable", there you go that says enough, says it all.

ill be getting an MP soon as I can, grand piano finish, and itll be my friend and scuffed scratched and marked withing a month of owning it.

-Larby Im honoured you answered on this thread, I think your work is outstanding, long before I figured the Pixies connection...

If anyone is interested in selling their MP grand piano and vit for a fair trade of cash or something else, let me know. Otherwise ill just buy it from another nameless shop.

Joe