M6 TTL or MP

kevin m said:
Do you have any scientific proof that this is an accurate statement? (No fair quoting from Leica sales literature.) I'm sure a black lacquered brass camera feels nice in your hands, but does that translate to increased reliability?
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I talked with Leica's then CEO Cohn, and the head of Leica Production Stefan Daniels, about the then new MP at PMA in Orlando that year.

The MP returned to a hand made Leica, with better parts fitting than the previous M6 / M6 TTL. And if I remember correctly, Stefan also talked about smoother advance gearing.

you can feel the difference between the M6TTL and MP, providing both are up to specs. The MP does have a smoother film advance.

Stephen
 
I'd love to get an MP for the project I am shooting, but I have to consider that thus far, it is self funded and very expensive. I'll probably put over 1,000 rolls in my M6 over the next 3 years. I know of 18 photographers who use Leica for pro use, a few are really famous...they can afford the best, but..

They all use M6's.

While the rewind crank on the MP looks like a better design for the long term, I do need to get the work done and a crank is a better option for me. I have to say though, the fact it is 45 degrees has made me wonder about torsion in a hurried shooting session.

So unless I can score a decent condition MP for $1,800, I have to accept the brilliant images I get from my lowly M6 Wetzlar.....:)
 
Just my 2¢

Just my 2¢

As a M3 owner, I was going to get the M6/M4, but with some knowledgeable advice from here, and actually using the MP, it was a no brainier for me. I am selling off some Nikon DSLR bodies to raise the cash for the MP.
 
patrickjames said:
Do you know the way to rewind the film if you have a MP or an older M? Just run the edge of your hand along the rewind knob. It is very fast, probably as fast as a crank if you do it right. At least that is how I do it on my M3. Works like a charm.

Patrick
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Yes, until it gets to the undo from take-up spool. If you want to stop there it is easy, if you want to roll it all in it becomes a bit more difficult.
 
peter_n said:
Demian what is the issue with batteries? I've used electronic cameras for 25 years and never had a problem in the field. It is a fairly simple matter to always have replacement batteries in the bag... :confused:
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A spare set of batteries are only good to you if you have them warm in your pocket, and the camera too for that matter, because; you put warm batteries in a cold camera and youll get the same thing in five minutes.

I can tell you I am insanely sick of my battery driven camera regardless of the 'convenience' of A.
 
peter_n said:
Demian what is the issue with batteries? I've used electronic cameras for 25 years and never had a problem in the field. It is a fairly simple matter to always have replacement batteries in the bag... :confused:
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I agree.

My car needs a battery to start the engine and that doesn't worry me at all.

All my cameras need batteries too and I always have spares on hand.
 
demian said:
Anolhter point I might add that truly matters, is that the MP uses solid state electronics for the metering system...the M6 and ttl models still used a partial analog electronics...

The MP shares the same bullet proof electronics as the M7....

This is an important point as well.. Leica did truly make the M the best it could be with the MP. They took it as far as it could go...

Oh yes, and NO BATTERIES...(as compared to M7) this is of paramount importance.

Good luck once again. lol.....
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No my reference to an MP unfortunately, but so far very happy owner of Classic 6.
Demian, couldn't get your point on solid state electronics - what did you intend to say ?
All contemporary electronics is actually a solid state matter...now saying M6 uses partial analog hardware - did you mean MP utilizes digital-only metering electronics ?
Besides, analog isn't necesserily worse of digital and there are analog designs (though an excellent ananlog design is a piece of art).
Neither understood what did you mean by bullet proof electronisc in Mp or M7...did you intend to say reliable measurement ? More sensitive to low-light levels ? Or what ? As to the precision, I compared the meter reading of my M6 woth a dedicated spot meter (Seconik and Pentax Digital) in various lighting conditions - M6 always was spot-on with them (albeit within half stop because this is the smallest M6 can show).
All that bearing an "antique" M6 metering technology and state of the art dedicated meters technology. Granted, once extreme precision is necessary (1/3 stop and less) - dedicated meters are ways to go, but otherwise, with proper metering technique, M6 meter is more then adequate tool. I believe the same is true about MP.
 
I agree that the MP certainly feels nicer to use than an M6, but again, I'm not sure if that translates into it being a "more robust" camera, which sounds suspiciously like marketing-speak to me. I ran hundreds of rolls thru my M6TTL's every year without a hitch. It's hard to be more "robust" than that. :)

And if it's pure craftsmanship you're after, the MP certainly doesn't equal the look or feel of a really "mint" M3, M2 or M4, IMO. Hold one of those and you can almost sense the presence of technicians in white lab coats in the room with you. :D
 
kevin m said:
And if it's pure craftsmanship you're after, the MP certainly doesn't equal the look or feel of a really "mint" M3, M2 or M4, IMO. Hold one of those and you can almost sense the presence of technicians in white lab coats in the room with you. :D
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You're joking right :eek:

The new MP to me feels the tightest and most acuarately made of any Leica I have ever picked up (M6s, M2, M3....) I am sure the M7 feels similarly tight but have not handled one. I guess this is a result of CNC machinery and tighter tolerances. The oder cameras are like older cars; quaint and full of soul. IMO this is not a result of better craftmanship but precisely the opposite. The poorer tolerances that result from Humans shaping things to fit give a more human feel, but better crafted it aint:D

The MP to me has a superb balance of old world feel ( simplicity, ergonomics, style and materials) yet with modern super tight tolerances and ultra smooth operation. Just my 2 cents. I suspect in time and some wear, MPs will get slicker and slicker still (whihc is hard to imagine)

Tom
 
Didn't I read somewhere that the MP initially had problems with dust in the viewfinder because of a problem with the seals... ? I assume that's fixed now (I hope so, as I have relatively new MP). In any case, I think both the MP and M6TTL are great (and I have both), but the MP does seem a bit better built and smoother.

Best,
Alex
 
The oder cameras are like older cars; quaint and full of soul. IMO this is not a result of better craftmanship but precisely the opposite. The poorer tolerances that result from Humans shaping things to fit give a more human feel, but better crafted it aint
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Well, "craftsmanship" to me doesn't simply refer to tight specs and tolerances. If it did, then we'd all be here praising our Honda Accords. Like I said, you can almost sense the presence of the white-coat technicians in the room with you when you handle the old cameras. :) Somehow, one doesn't get the same feeling from a piece of CNC machined metal, no matter how fine the tolerances.

I'm not dogging the MP, it's definitely a good move for Leica to give the camera a more 'handmade' look and feel while bringing it into the modern age from an engineering standpoint. But park it next to a really mint (not ebay mint) M3, M2 or M4 and I think it's obvious which camera is really "hand crafted." That the old camera can be had for 1/2 the money of the MP makes them pretty attractive, too. :angel:
 
the mp obviously exudes less. it has flush windows, a cost-cutting feature introduced by the m4-p, as well as only engraving "leica" on the top plate instead of the full classic engraving, which started with the m4-2. it has a battery compartment on the front, and an adjustment pot underneath the advance lever. the plastic iso-dial is even cheaper than the m6, and there is still no black crinkle paint in the film loading frame. the black paint finish, in immitation of "designer" jeans, was made softer than the original, making it very susceptible to fine scratches. this eventually clouds the surface of the camera and doesn't wear like the original black paint leicas. this especially convinced me that an mp was not for me. the body covering is leatherette, instead of vulcanite. finally, the knob has a tendancy to get or become wiggly. demos at both camera shops had it, and it's been reported on the internet. this may be caused by the new friction gromit in the mechanism.

on the other hand, none of the classics have built-in meters.
 
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I have an MP3 if I need to look at classic engraving or traditional finder windows :) I do not find the paint an issue. Softer means it does not flake off, but it dulls, so six of one and half a dozen of another. I could not care less as it will wear whatever finish I go for and silver is just to shiny and visible for my likes. I wish they had done one in a high quality black chrome that was deeper in finish than some M6s I have seen, where it reminded me of cheap rifle bluing. I had to go for black for practical reasons and so BP was the only option. I so wanted to hate the MP before I ever owned a Leica. I laughed at it openly some years back when released...I never thought in a million years I would own two...I just love them both, MP std and MP3. They may matt somewhat but that will be as a result of Afghanistan, Sierra Leone (soon..), the UK, the US and wherever I go to next. I can live that those memories etched into my camera :)
 
...also, whilst I might not talk of Hondas as being full of craftsmanship, I am thankfull of my Toyotas never having broken down (old battery aside) in 14 years. I have huge respect for that and believe there is a balance between traditional handmade feel and superior tolerances etc. I am a total devotee of Japanese cars for their astonishing reliabilty. I would however have an Aston if one was going for free! My 1984 corolla had a 16 valve engine that the Germans only put on their VW Golf GTi 16V (ther also being an 8V) years later...what a joke! I love Japanese performance cars because their engine technology makes german, british or US cars look like the products of neanderthal man, dollar for dollar. Don't even get me started on my 1992Nissan Sunny/Pulsar GTiR...Ohhhh man....1300Kgs, 4wd, 2000cc DOHC, 230 Bhp (if left std), chain driven cams....and it went on forever with no bills and produced dyno curves like a freehand sketched curve all while similar eurpoean cars were busy costing big $ to maintain or going "BANG!!"...sorry, I miss that car soooo bad. That thing had soul of a different kind...

Considering the minimal cost of full engraving I cannot help but feel that the new minimal "Leica" was simply to allow for the silly charge of $250 for full engraving rather than to save money per se. I mean what can it cost? I love the craftsmanship of my 50 'Lux LHSA but this thing weighs a tonne! The price of craftsmanship here is double the weight ofr my 50 ZM planar, oh yes. Yummy tho. Dropped from the Empire State it would probably work if recovered from its 10 foot deep furrow. It remains to be seen if it is appreciably better than the planar tho....yet to test.
 
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