Matus
Well-known
Now, I risk to get burned, but here it goes. I have never had in hand either the M7 or the Ikon so I know noting about that great viewfinder of Ikon and smooth feeling of the M7. But I did own an R3A for few months and have heard that Ikon has pretty much the same shutter with some slight updates. But if that shutter sound is anywhere close to R3A that would be for me the reason not to get the Ikon. The shutter of R3A was loud (and having an unpleasant sound) enough that people got concerned about it in places that were a bit more peaceful than the main square.
That much my personal impression. No offense to satisfied users of R3A cameras, please. Nice machine, but I just could not put up with that shutter sound.
I would actually wish that the Ikon shutter would be silent and soft as I find the camera really tempting and reasonably priced. I would actually love to get my hands on both M7 and Ikon.
That much my personal impression. No offense to satisfied users of R3A cameras, please. Nice machine, but I just could not put up with that shutter sound.
I would actually wish that the Ikon shutter would be silent and soft as I find the camera really tempting and reasonably priced. I would actually love to get my hands on both M7 and Ikon.
robbeiflex
Well-known
Matus, I haven't used an R3A but did have an R2-based Rollei 35RF before I got my ZM. This is just my personal opinion, but due to the heavier construction of the ZM the same shutter is a touch lower and quieter. It is still a vertical metal shutter though, so still louder than a Leica and much louder than my Rollieflex. The ZM is a wonderful camera nonetheless and I'm enjoying it very much!
jawarden
Well-known
The shutter noise is the only thing I don't like about the Ikon. Well, there is that bright light shutter speed display issue but that is so infrequent for me that I won't pick that nit.
The shutter sound isn't unpleasant or even all that loud, but it is a metallic sound, so when people hear it they turn and look - a bad thing. I'm considering getting one of those Luigi leather half cases for mine to knock down the noise a bit.
Kim Coxon
Moderator
The answer has to be neither for me. I haven't used an M7 but I do have the M6 and love it to bits. I also have the ZI and I just can't get along with it. True the finder is bright but I always seem to bring the camera up so I can't see the framelines correctly. Not a problem with the M6.
Totally on the side though, I have just about got rid of all my Leica glass and far prefer the Zeiss and Pentax.
Kim
Totally on the side though, I have just about got rid of all my Leica glass and far prefer the Zeiss and Pentax.
Kim
steveyork
Well-known
I've tried both, and liked the M7 better.
As I recall, there was something with the focusing patch on the ZM that made it a hassle to focus, as compared to Leicas. The viewfinder on the ZM, however, is very nice (think about the difference between a F2 and F3HP).
For the price, the ZM can't be beat. I would never pay full MSRP for Leicas -- their prices are just crazy now -- and I got my M7 as a demo (w/ an abbreviated 1 yr. warranty from Leica USA) for only a little more than what a new ZM would cost.
As I recall, there was something with the focusing patch on the ZM that made it a hassle to focus, as compared to Leicas. The viewfinder on the ZM, however, is very nice (think about the difference between a F2 and F3HP).
For the price, the ZM can't be beat. I would never pay full MSRP for Leicas -- their prices are just crazy now -- and I got my M7 as a demo (w/ an abbreviated 1 yr. warranty from Leica USA) for only a little more than what a new ZM would cost.
steveyork
Well-known
Yes, the compensation on the back of the is not very convenient.
steveyork
Well-known
As I recall, not so much brighter as bigger. Better eye relief. Negated a bit by the wobbly focusing patch. With a Leica, the focusing patc just snaps together. No so with the ZM.
Innerimager
Established
M7 was my first film RF and it's great, no complaints. After looking through a Zeiss 21mm VF and being told by a friend with a ZI that the VF on the camera looked that good....I've been thinking of getting one. Just pulled the trigger on a used silver ZI, looking forward to looking through it! best...Peter
Photon42
burn the box
Hello Peter,
I have a silver one for over a year and like it very much. It is not a Leica in terms of feel, but it has other, sometimes more practical properties.
Regards
Ivo
Innerimager
Established
Thanks Ivo- I have an M3 with it's excellent finder but it's been painted and I don't treat it as a true work camera. I plan to take advantage of the lighter weight than the M7 (especially since I use a motor winder on it) and make it a carry everywhere body, with a 50 cron on it and 28 cron in pocket. best....Peter
Riverman
Well-known
I have an M6 but have only been shooting it for a month or so. Recently got a chance to play with a couple of Zeiss Ikons. Fantastic. Very pretty and a wonderful viewfinder. I didn't find the shutter sound of the Ikon in the least bit offensive. If I was looking for an AE RF there's no question - for me the Ikon would win hands down against the M7.
kshapero
South Florida Man
Well for me the M7 was always in the shop. The ZI had a great VF, but it just was not a Leica (snob that I am). Anyway AE is a distraction for me. The M6 fills the bill.
akiralx
Established
I have a M7 0.58 and a ZI, and would choose the latter.
Also a note, as a glasses wearer it is easier for me to see the 35mm frames in the ZI than the 0.58 M7.
Also a note, as a glasses wearer it is easier for me to see the 35mm frames in the ZI than the 0.58 M7.
Nick De Marco
Well-known
I liked the Zeiss Ikon so much - a bright large viewfinder and good AE, that I bought the M7 as well. Sounds strange, but I guess it was just because of the additional use i got from the AE and the finder. I got an M7 .85, which is perfect with a 50mm lens.
italy74
Well-known
Ciao Alex (and other users of course)
#1) please would you elaborate a bit more this ? It's just a matter of sun burning the shutter or does the MP has better capability to work with dim light somehow ?
#2) Another question for M6 / M7 / MP users: no idea for Zeiss Ikon, but what about manual metering on such cameras ? It looks like almost a spot-metering more than a center-weighted metering.. it might be useful with the zone system, i.e. pointing to zone III area and underexposing two stops the reading ? Or do you work in a different way ?
#3 Actually, who has a Leica with the .85x finder AND wears glasses: how are 35 - 50 - 90 mm framelines ? (especially if compared with 35 - 50 - 85 of Zeiss, just in case anyone has both)
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Japan---Exposures
Member
I suspect that even a metal shutter would be damaged by direct sunlight through the lens. These are not tough metal pieces, these are very fine and soft leaves of metal.
Yes, a few people get their shutters burnt when carelessly placing the camera somewhere without lens cap. It shouldn't be a buying criteria IMHO.
Yes, a few people get their shutters burnt when carelessly placing the camera somewhere without lens cap. It shouldn't be a buying criteria IMHO.
akiralx
Established
I have since traded my MP for an M7.
Yes, for me it is the fear the cloth shutter will be burned on the MP/M7 (and my M3) under bright Aussie sun. I may be exaggerating the dangers...
But the 1/1000th max shutter speed on the M7 is a clear disadvantage in bright sunlight.
I would find the ZI (or M3) easier in lower light owing to the better viewfinder and longer EBL.
I believe that on an 0.85 VF the 35 mm framelines are at the very periphery of vision for glasses wearers, but I've never used one. There are a few threads about this.
italy74
Well-known
Well, in this case would equally be fine, whatever I see in the viewfinder is within its 35mm framelines so I expect it to be 100% in the picture, kind of WYSIWYG to tell in '90s terminology...
On a side note, maybe few of you have realized how Nikon D700 might be used with a RF looking-finder while selecting DX crop with a FX lens. This was one of the nicest finds I did about my DSLR
mojobebop
Well-known
m7
m7
m7 a superior camera.
m7
m7 a superior camera.
errorlogin
Love vintage Hifi, too!
I voted for the Leica.
Because the Leica is still a Leica. The Zeiss Ikon has nothing at all to do with the real old Zeiss Ikon cameras.
It might be a good camera but the name is not honest. It is not a Zeiss Ikon.
If it had a completely different name, I would probably buy it. But not as long as it has "Zeiss Ikon" written on it!
Same with Voigtländer....
And many other glorious old names like "Dual", "Grundig", "Telefunken".
And many old glorious german piano makers which were gone long time ago. Companies just use their good name and reputation for something cra***
Why can't they give them a new name, when they create something new???
Because the Leica is still a Leica. The Zeiss Ikon has nothing at all to do with the real old Zeiss Ikon cameras.
It might be a good camera but the name is not honest. It is not a Zeiss Ikon.
If it had a completely different name, I would probably buy it. But not as long as it has "Zeiss Ikon" written on it!
Same with Voigtländer....
And many other glorious old names like "Dual", "Grundig", "Telefunken".
And many old glorious german piano makers which were gone long time ago. Companies just use their good name and reputation for something cra***
Why can't they give them a new name, when they create something new???
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