magicianhisoka
Well-known
The ikon has been great except for one instance of the RF being misaligned. That severely annoyed me considering I didn't knock it against anything. Suspected that using a sniper sling with it was a seriously bad idea.
But given the few dozen rolls I put through it before realignment and the few dozen after, I have to agree with Pioneer that it is a workhorse.
I'd say M7 lust while owning a ZI is usually marketing residue from being told that "leicas last forever". I'd be happy if the ZI gave me 10 more years on it
But given the few dozen rolls I put through it before realignment and the few dozen after, I have to agree with Pioneer that it is a workhorse.
I'd say M7 lust while owning a ZI is usually marketing residue from being told that "leicas last forever". I'd be happy if the ZI gave me 10 more years on it
sc_rufctr
Leica nuts
At the end of the day the M7 will retain a higher re sale value.
That alone can not be ignored. YMMV
That alone can not be ignored. YMMV
Pioneer
Veteran
Why sell perfection?
Use it instead.
Use it instead.
magicianhisoka
Well-known
Bravo, well said.
Can't say I'm not personally tempted by other camera goodies, but the ikon for me is more than sufficient
sc_rufctr
Leica nuts
Don't get me wrong, It's a great camera but I won't be here forever.
My kids will get everything I have. They may or may not decide to sell my limited collection but if they do sell I want them to at least get a decent return.
Spicy
Well-known
you guys realize this thread is now older than someone born 5 years ago, right?
Pioneer
Veteran
Just gettin old enough to go to kindergarten, right??
kanzlr
Hexaneur
back on topic: For some reason I bought a Leica M7 a few weeks ago. Everything in me said Ikon, but now that M7 is here. I always thought I prefer the Hexar RF anyway (and in a way, I still do), but there is something about owning the "real thing", as childish as that may seem.
Really the most important factor to me was how AE lock works. M7 -> half press of the shutter, just like my SLRs used to work. The extra button on the Ikon bothered me.
Really the most important factor to me was how AE lock works. M7 -> half press of the shutter, just like my SLRs used to work. The extra button on the Ikon bothered me.
Pioneer
Veteran
I enjoy shooting Leica. I just picked up a brand new M-A and I am really, really enjoying it. So much so that it has moved into the regular rotation with the ikon that my Bessa used to hold.
I love these rangefinders. It will be lots of fun to see which one needs to be serviced first. The ZI or the MA?
I love these rangefinders. It will be lots of fun to see which one needs to be serviced first. The ZI or the MA?
whitecat
Lone Range(find)er
Go for the Zeiss. I have had both and the Zeiss viewfinder is crisper, brighter, has more contrast, not to mention brighter frame lines.
Dez
Bodger Extraordinaire
I actually have neither of these cameras, but my only worry about the Zeiss would be ongoing service support, with a small production run and the discontinuance of the cameras,
Cheers,
Dez
DNG
Film Friendly
Ummm
Don't own either, but, I have been researching the M7, for a future purchase..
M7... last Film RF... about $2300 average..It's a Leica after all...
Z1... short lived production for some reason? About $750-1000 used to new, (156xxxx are better made?)
similar in function, had a few QC issues that a repair would fix, so, a Z1 and spend a few $$ to have it checked out and a CLA...
Should be care free for a while. is still a better deal.
Don't own either, but, I have been researching the M7, for a future purchase..
M7... last Film RF... about $2300 average..It's a Leica after all...
Z1... short lived production for some reason? About $750-1000 used to new, (156xxxx are better made?)
similar in function, had a few QC issues that a repair would fix, so, a Z1 and spend a few $$ to have it checked out and a CLA...
Should be care free for a while. is still a better deal.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
The M-A is Leica's most recent film RF camera. It might be too early to say "last" ... ;-)
As much as the ZI has some technical improvements on the kind, I'd prefer buying a Leica M7 for the service available now and into the future. That said, I tend to prefer the meterless film Ms for their simplicity.
G
flyingpalm
Well-known
An M7 with everything only ask for $1850, what are you waiting for?
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/pho...product/47077/title/m7-2c-m4-and-lenses/cat/3
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/pho...product/47077/title/m7-2c-m4-and-lenses/cat/3
Austerby
Well-known
I've had an M7 and currently have a ZM.
If only the camera existed that had the ZM's viewfinder and the M7's feel - that would be near perfect.
Both magnificent but neither is quite perfect in its own right.
I do keep thinking about getting another M7 though, selling mine was a mistake but I put it towards a M8 which I still have and still use so that wasn't a mistake.
If only the camera existed that had the ZM's viewfinder and the M7's feel - that would be near perfect.
Both magnificent but neither is quite perfect in its own right.
I do keep thinking about getting another M7 though, selling mine was a mistake but I put it towards a M8 which I still have and still use so that wasn't a mistake.
Matus
Well-known
Probably not the most relevant for the discussion, but still - as nice as the ZM is (I had a chance to use it for couple of days some time back), it was in production just a few years - I do not expect any large quantities of replacement parts to be available in the long run.
DavidKKHansen
Well-known
I sometimes don't understand people's concern about finding replacement parts for certain cameras.
I understand the concern and worry if buying an expensive Leica camera that is supposed to last a lifetime. Will parts still be made in X-amount of years? Who can fix my Leica if Leica suddenly ceases to exist? I get that.
But for a camera like the Zeiss Ikon, it's relatively cheap to buy it used (in comparison to a Leica). These cameras are quite capable and I'm sure they will be able to last a great many years. If and when one day it needs to be fixed and if Zeiss won't fix them, then perhaps just get another used one?
The romantic idea of having used the same camera for most of one's lifetime is a nice thought. But I reckon when I am old and look back at pictures I've taken throughout my life I'd be more appreciative of the images I can enjoy and share, rather than the fact I've used a same camera most of my life.
Regarding the Zeiss Ikon vs. Leica M7: They're both splendid cameras, but as another poster said they're not quite perfect in each their own way. I wish Leica could take some improvements from the Ikon and make an M7.2
I understand the concern and worry if buying an expensive Leica camera that is supposed to last a lifetime. Will parts still be made in X-amount of years? Who can fix my Leica if Leica suddenly ceases to exist? I get that.
But for a camera like the Zeiss Ikon, it's relatively cheap to buy it used (in comparison to a Leica). These cameras are quite capable and I'm sure they will be able to last a great many years. If and when one day it needs to be fixed and if Zeiss won't fix them, then perhaps just get another used one?
The romantic idea of having used the same camera for most of one's lifetime is a nice thought. But I reckon when I am old and look back at pictures I've taken throughout my life I'd be more appreciative of the images I can enjoy and share, rather than the fact I've used a same camera most of my life.
Regarding the Zeiss Ikon vs. Leica M7: They're both splendid cameras, but as another poster said they're not quite perfect in each their own way. I wish Leica could take some improvements from the Ikon and make an M7.2
Pioneer
Veteran
I'm probably wrong but there are so many older Leica cameras being used out there that the repair-ability is part of the Leica identity.
Ergo, any other rangefinder that is part of the market, particularly those who use the M or screwmount, will be compared against that particular part of the Leica identity.
I think this is particularly true of the Zeiss Ikon. The Bessa has never been considered a direct competitor of Leica, rather more of a poor man's rangefinder. The Zeiss Ikon has been touted by users and reviewers as equal, and in some cases superior, to the Leica. That puts the Zeiss Ikon in direct competition with the entire Leica experience, including the reliability and repair ability components.
I personally believe that the Zeiss Ikon is a terrific camera and I use mine regularly. I do believe that the Zeiss Ikon design very successfully addressed some Leica design foibles that are really no longer necessary. Unfortunately, though only time will really tell, I don't think that the Zeiss Ikon can compete with the build quality piece of the Leica experience.
Ergo, any other rangefinder that is part of the market, particularly those who use the M or screwmount, will be compared against that particular part of the Leica identity.
I think this is particularly true of the Zeiss Ikon. The Bessa has never been considered a direct competitor of Leica, rather more of a poor man's rangefinder. The Zeiss Ikon has been touted by users and reviewers as equal, and in some cases superior, to the Leica. That puts the Zeiss Ikon in direct competition with the entire Leica experience, including the reliability and repair ability components.
I personally believe that the Zeiss Ikon is a terrific camera and I use mine regularly. I do believe that the Zeiss Ikon design very successfully addressed some Leica design foibles that are really no longer necessary. Unfortunately, though only time will really tell, I don't think that the Zeiss Ikon can compete with the build quality piece of the Leica experience.
OddE
Recovering GAS addict.
I've owned both - the M7 only briefly. Now, there's no denying that the M7 feels more substantial than the ZI; also, I put more faith in Leica's long-term commitment to service.
However, I do think Leica will be able to service M3s long after support has ended for M7s - basically, electronics are a lot harder to support than mechanics. Still I expect M7s to be serviceable long after ZI support has ended.
My ZI is a highly capable camera, and I love it to bits while it lasts. As others have suggested - if/when it fails beyond repair, I may just pick up another one and keep shooting.
However, I do think Leica will be able to service M3s long after support has ended for M7s - basically, electronics are a lot harder to support than mechanics. Still I expect M7s to be serviceable long after ZI support has ended.
My ZI is a highly capable camera, and I love it to bits while it lasts. As others have suggested - if/when it fails beyond repair, I may just pick up another one and keep shooting.
Wulfthari
Well-known
That's a difficult question, I would say the ZM but its design is NOT that great IMO, for me the M7 is much nicer to look at.
IMO reliability is not an issue: electronic shutters like the Copal one have been used since the 70s on SLRs (Pentax K2 first) and they are absolutely reliable after so many years.
IMO reliability is not an issue: electronic shutters like the Copal one have been used since the 70s on SLRs (Pentax K2 first) and they are absolutely reliable after so many years.