DGA
Well-known
ZI (and not just because I own one).
A friend of mine used to have an M6 (which, as I've told, resemble the size and shape of the M7).
After he took my ZI for a quick ride, he sold his M6, bought a ZI of his own and never looked back.
I think that the only thing better in the M7 is the patch which does not disappear as in the ZI. but I got used to it and look at it as a fair trade-off for the huge-bright viewfinder.
A friend of mine used to have an M6 (which, as I've told, resemble the size and shape of the M7).
After he took my ZI for a quick ride, he sold his M6, bought a ZI of his own and never looked back.
I think that the only thing better in the M7 is the patch which does not disappear as in the ZI. but I got used to it and look at it as a fair trade-off for the huge-bright viewfinder.
George S.
How many is enough?
I've owned M7s in the past, loved them and only sold them when I needed to raise some cash, and I use an M6 Classic as my everyday RF. I was looking for a reasonably priced used M7 and kept coming up on the short end. So I took the plunge on a new ZI for $1300 after reading all the posts here!
Here's my 2c... The ZI doesn't feel flimsy, it just feels like a "modern" camera. Nothing built today will have the weight of a Leica for various reasons. The Leicas follow a design path laid out in the 1950s (M3). Pick up any item built in 1955 and you'll get what I'm saying. (Auto, TV, toaster, whatever). The viewfinder and VF patch seem positively huge and super bright. Yes, you can make the patch dimmer by moving your eye around, but in no time you'll "get it" with regard to looking thru it and it won't be a problem. The film load and exposure comp are great advantages over the Leica. The shutter sound differences are very minor and a non issue in reality. The only minor "issues" I can point to are 1- the first time I attached a flash (Leica SF-20) and removed it, the thin chrome metal piece that is the bottom of the camera's flash shoe was suddenly flopping around but still inside the shoe. I pressed it down and it very solidly clicked into place and hasn't come loose yet. 2.- The rewind crank assembly feels very light and flimsy, when I pull it out to remove the film cannister it feels like my big hands could pull it right off. Makes me wonder if that will last 20 years. Everything else feels and looks solidly made and has a quality look and feel to it.
Here's my 2c... The ZI doesn't feel flimsy, it just feels like a "modern" camera. Nothing built today will have the weight of a Leica for various reasons. The Leicas follow a design path laid out in the 1950s (M3). Pick up any item built in 1955 and you'll get what I'm saying. (Auto, TV, toaster, whatever). The viewfinder and VF patch seem positively huge and super bright. Yes, you can make the patch dimmer by moving your eye around, but in no time you'll "get it" with regard to looking thru it and it won't be a problem. The film load and exposure comp are great advantages over the Leica. The shutter sound differences are very minor and a non issue in reality. The only minor "issues" I can point to are 1- the first time I attached a flash (Leica SF-20) and removed it, the thin chrome metal piece that is the bottom of the camera's flash shoe was suddenly flopping around but still inside the shoe. I pressed it down and it very solidly clicked into place and hasn't come loose yet. 2.- The rewind crank assembly feels very light and flimsy, when I pull it out to remove the film cannister it feels like my big hands could pull it right off. Makes me wonder if that will last 20 years. Everything else feels and looks solidly made and has a quality look and feel to it.
Sam N
Well-known
I think the feel comes mostly down to weight and flexibility. My 1950s Rolleicord (made by Germans, even!) is lightweight and, while very well built just like my ZI, is not as "solid" feeling as a Leica M. Meanwhile, today's pro DSLRs (1D mark3, etc.) feel extremely solid. The 1D and the Leica are heavier than their counterparts and mainly one piece of metal, which makes them feel more sturdy.
As for the ZIs rewind crank, I think the reason it feels so light is that it's so simple and small. It just pops right into the bottom of the film canister.
mojobebop
Well-known
i'd like an m7
but even used kind of out of my range.
but even used kind of out of my range.
peripatetic
Well-known
What's not to love about a Leica?
And yet I got a ZI - the main reason for me was that I wear eyeglasses and I found it really quite tricky to see through the Leica viewfinder; the ZI by comparison was a breeze.
I do find the shutter speed display to be difficult to read sometimes, but as I mostly use A mode and negative film, as long as I can get the shutter somewhere between 1/60 and 1/2000 I'm not too bothered. It lets me concentrate more on the picture I want.
I may well still end up with a Leica one day, but if I do I will take to wearing contact lenses at the same time.
There is one other thing - just about no-one recognises the ZI. People either think it's an old camera or think it looks really cool. I have never even momentarily though that someone might mug me for it. A Leica is a Leica, everyone knows the brand. This is of course both a good and bad thing. No need to spell it out.
And yet I got a ZI - the main reason for me was that I wear eyeglasses and I found it really quite tricky to see through the Leica viewfinder; the ZI by comparison was a breeze.
I do find the shutter speed display to be difficult to read sometimes, but as I mostly use A mode and negative film, as long as I can get the shutter somewhere between 1/60 and 1/2000 I'm not too bothered. It lets me concentrate more on the picture I want.
I may well still end up with a Leica one day, but if I do I will take to wearing contact lenses at the same time.
There is one other thing - just about no-one recognises the ZI. People either think it's an old camera or think it looks really cool. I have never even momentarily though that someone might mug me for it. A Leica is a Leica, everyone knows the brand. This is of course both a good and bad thing. No need to spell it out.
Beemermark
Veteran
I think more people are aware of the Zeiss Brand (on cameras/ eye glasses / binoculars, etc) then the Leica brand. And as proven at my daughter's wedding not even professional photographers know what a Leica is( the photographer commented on my neat old camera, which is a fairly new M7). lastly, and most importantly thiefs don't care if it's a Kodak Brownie or Leica or Hasselblad. Very, very few thiefs are brand shoppers.
anabasis
Established
I was toying with the idea of both cameras last year. The reason I got the Leica is that it has 90mm frame lines to go with my 90mm Elmarit-M.
bherman
bherman
ZM or M7?
ZM or M7?
I never owned a Zeiss Ikon, but I rented one for a few days.
Positives:
Lighter (just a bit)
Wider Baseline (supposed to be more accurate focusing)
Larger, 'high-eyepoint' viewfinder
Larger non-Leica service network
Negatives:
Not as robust or as durable as the M7
Images didn't snap into focus as well for me as with the M7
Potential for replacement parts issues
Resale value (The M7 is Leica's flagship automatic "M-Series". they won't release another automatic film-based body. Ever.
If I were me, and I were to buy my first Leica, and you prefer the automation of the M7 or Zeiss, (and you had the additional $500.00-$1000.00) I would go with the M7. If this were a second body for backup, I wouldn't hesitate to get the Zeiss.
It's all a matter of personal taste though.
Brad
ZM or M7?
I never owned a Zeiss Ikon, but I rented one for a few days.
Positives:
Lighter (just a bit)
Wider Baseline (supposed to be more accurate focusing)
Larger, 'high-eyepoint' viewfinder
Larger non-Leica service network
Negatives:
Not as robust or as durable as the M7
Images didn't snap into focus as well for me as with the M7
Potential for replacement parts issues
Resale value (The M7 is Leica's flagship automatic "M-Series". they won't release another automatic film-based body. Ever.
If I were me, and I were to buy my first Leica, and you prefer the automation of the M7 or Zeiss, (and you had the additional $500.00-$1000.00) I would go with the M7. If this were a second body for backup, I wouldn't hesitate to get the Zeiss.
It's all a matter of personal taste though.
Brad
kshapero
South Florida Man
My ZI works perfectly with my 90mm on the 85mm frameline.
italy74
Well-known
Zeiss Ikon to shoot: cheaper and under some points more flexible
M7 for a collectionist.
M7 for a collectionist.
thomasw_
Well-known
Neither, I'd go with a MP. But if the MP had no being, I would go with the M7.
srtiwari
Daktari
Never seen or held the ZI; Own a Like-New M7,and love it ! The biggest factor for me was the M7's ability to shoot a couple of manual speeds even if battery dead. Can't do that (apparently) with the ZI.
kshapero
South Florida Man
Off topic, I also have a Nikon FM3a. Best of both worlds, aperture preferred but all speeds work if battery dies. But that mirror slap!! Anyway I got the CV 40mm/f2 pancake, a real joy.
kshapero
South Florida Man
As the hippies say, "It's all good."
clicker
Well-known
Wow, I must be getting old. I remember when dignity and respect for others was the order of the day, but then again business agreements where closed with a hand shake.
I miss my parents and the wisdom of their parenting, and yes they had enough insight to pass on the countless prints of days gone by.Be kind to everyone,especially the elderly
who have so much to give. BTW they often have boxes of great pictures just waiting to be visited.
I miss my parents and the wisdom of their parenting, and yes they had enough insight to pass on the countless prints of days gone by.Be kind to everyone,especially the elderly
who have so much to give. BTW they often have boxes of great pictures just waiting to be visited.
Bill Blackwell
Leica M Shooter
The first time I picked up a Zeiss Ikon in a camera store the shutter jammed and never fired again - it was dead. Aside from that, I was thoroughly unimpressed with the finder as the RF patch blanks out unless your eye is perfectly centered in the VF. It feels sort of like wearing bifocals with only a small spot to read through.
OTOH, I owned an M7 for a few years (until I traded it for an M8). It has AE, the durability of a Leica, and two manual speeds thrown in for good measure. It was my primary shooter; the shutter never jammed and the RF patch never whited out.
OTOH, I owned an M7 for a few years (until I traded it for an M8). It has AE, the durability of a Leica, and two manual speeds thrown in for good measure. It was my primary shooter; the shutter never jammed and the RF patch never whited out.
dseelig
David
m7 or zi
m7 or zi
Are you tough on cameras if so get the leica. Do you want a 75 lux get the leica zeiss does not have framelines for it. Are you tight on money get the zeiss. Figure out what are the lenses you use and if you are tought on cameras then make a decision me I have a m6 ttl and an m8 btu that is me.
m7 or zi
Are you tough on cameras if so get the leica. Do you want a 75 lux get the leica zeiss does not have framelines for it. Are you tight on money get the zeiss. Figure out what are the lenses you use and if you are tought on cameras then make a decision me I have a m6 ttl and an m8 btu that is me.
back alley
IMAGES
let's ALL calm down, please.
I own Leicas and Zeiss and Voigtlander.
The 3x more expensive when new M7 is better made and more dependable than the M7 -- for the money it should be!
But the ZI has a better rangefinder / viewfinder than the M7, and can focus lenses more accurately as it has a longer effective rangefinder base length, and is more convenient to use with back door loading.
Stephen
The 3x more expensive when new M7 is better made and more dependable than the M7 -- for the money it should be!
But the ZI has a better rangefinder / viewfinder than the M7, and can focus lenses more accurately as it has a longer effective rangefinder base length, and is more convenient to use with back door loading.
Stephen
Photon42
burn the box
I voted for the ZI, because I already own a Leica. The ZI is a really attractive camera, both from handling and design, and I think it compliments well any Leica. I've got no problems with different dials, buttons etc. The human layout proves to be extremely flexible, if needed 
. Yes, I've read stories about RF alignment problems etc. So I did for the M7.
Maybe for a first body I'd opt for a used M7. The Leicas have something defined and dense, which I find hard to describe, but goes somewhat under the skin :angel:. Like with other things, for the last bit of quality improvement, we have to pay much, much extra. To some, it's worth it, to others not.
Cheers
Ivo
. Yes, I've read stories about RF alignment problems etc. So I did for the M7.Maybe for a first body I'd opt for a used M7. The Leicas have something defined and dense, which I find hard to describe, but goes somewhat under the skin :angel:. Like with other things, for the last bit of quality improvement, we have to pay much, much extra. To some, it's worth it, to others not.
Cheers
Ivo