M7 or a Zeiss Ikon ZM?

[George S.]

If you are trying to correct my figures, read more carefully what I wrote.
I stated mint M7s, which are different than just used.
New ZIs are $1300 new, I know because I bought one. Used ZIs are now found for even lower than $1000. Several nice ZIs recently were offered right here at RFF, which also makes them available to you in Europe. 😉

 

[arseniii]

M7! Here is why:
1) Availability of parts
2) Build as a brick
3) Availability of the camera. Here in Canada you cannot even see Ikon anywhere, the only option is to order a cat in a bag!
4)What if Zeiss ditches Cosina or Cosina ditches Zeiss, Zeiss history repeats itself over and over. The camera value will be lost. Now, what is happening to Contax G series
5)e.t.c.

 

[kshapero]

I think they are both great cameras. But I think the M7 is greater IMHO.

 

[Roma]

Taking better photos should matter more.
Oh yeah, M6 is more reliable that either one of those 😉

 

[Photon42]

M7! Here is why:
1) Availability of parts
2) Build as a brick
3) Availability of the camera. Here in Canada you cannot even see Ikon anywhere, the only option is to order a cat in a bag!
4)What if Zeiss ditches Cosina or Cosina ditches Zeiss, Zeiss history repeats itself over and over. The camera value will be lost. Now, what is happening to Contax G series
5)e.t.c.

This time Zeiss didn't chose a proprietary lens mount. So why would a break-up of Cosina and Zeiss possibly render lenses and camera useless?

Here in Switzerland almost nobody sells the ZI and if they do, they ask funny prices. The latter is sadly true however for most conventional photo equipment not being routinely sold by large box-moving companies.

 

[George S.]

Is it the import duties that keep Europeans from buying from overseas stores?

 

[Photon42]

Is it the import duties that keep Europeans from buying from overseas stores?

I think it depends mainly on duties and overall transaction handling including potiential problems with the item purchased.
Then companies are rarely transparent when it comes to their warranty regulations.
Some may also like to buy local for whatever reason. Others prefer only selling in the US 😉, w/o asking themselves, how the items made it to them.
At least the import process in Switzerland is surprisingly simple and the tax is acceptable (though the processing fee is relatively high). I need a certain level of confidence to buy abroad, but then most of my stuff is not bought in Switzerland.
Cheers
Ivo

 

[George S.]

I asked because I see a lot of moaning about European prices and wondered why those RFF members just don't buy from other RFF members, or from an international dealer if they want new? The prices on the ZI are a lot less here at RFF than what some are telling us the prices are in Europe.

 

[user237428934]

I stated mint M7s, which are different than just used.

So what exactly is the difference between used and mint? I am confused. Thought these terms are just synonyms.

 

[mojobebop]

mint/used

mint/used

So what exactly is the difference between used and mint? I am confused. Thought these terms are just synonyms.

i've bought almost mint, and they have really no discernible marks on them. whereas
used has different grades according to wear. (each retail outlet uses a different system).
just look at any retail store/used site.

 

[GoneSavage]

Go with the Ikon! The viewfinder is GORGEOUS.

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

So what exactly is the difference between used and mint? I am confused. Thought these terms are just synonyms.

In general, used and mint are different grades, the last being closer to new.

But it all depends on the seller too...

Some refer to mint thinking of cosmetics looking like new, but some say mint meaning glass is mint and mechanics work perfectly.

Cheers,

Juan

 

[whitecat]

I have had both. I know the ZI has a better viewfinder for sure.

 

[mojobebop]

I have an M7. Used it wasn't *that* much more than a ZI, and I waited to find one with the upgraded DX reader.

The ZI seems like a really nice camera, and if I found one for a good price I might pick it up. Everyone says the viewfinder is brighter, but the meter display and RF patch are better on the M7. Maybe the RF patch thing is just about flaring though. Anyway, I like the mechanical speeds on the M7; I just used that function for the first time the other day. The exposure compensation on the M7 is a bit daft, but the exposure lock on the shutter button works they way it should. It's not really exposure lock but a shutter speed lock, which means you can either do exposure lock, or lock the shutter speed and change the aperture if you need to spur of the moment exposure compensation.

The M7 is a great camera. I'm sure the ZI is too. I guess I ended up with an M7 because it's pretty close to my M6, but with AE. Which is what I wanted... I also prefer the black chrome to black paint - very non flashy.

------------------------------
"It's not really exposure lock but a shutter speed lock, which means you can either do exposure lock, or lock the shutter speed and change the aperture".

how does that work exactly? i have used it only for exposure lock. i've tried changing the aperature while holding down the lock. is there another way to do this?

 

[Roger Warren]

M7 is vastly superior to the Zeiss in any way you can imagine. It is very true that in photography, what you pay is what you get. Also, Zeiss's frame line selection sucks.

 

[mfogiel]

Haha... I suggest you use both for some time, and then come back with a more balanced judgement.
ZI frames are the best I've seen around, and there is no disturbing cluttering between the 50 and 75mm frames in particular. The camera is lighter, easier to load, the VF is plainly on another planet, the shutter goes down to 1/2000th and does not fear burning pinholes, the exposure compensation dial is easier to use, the rf base is longer, the lenses obstruct less the VF. There is nothing to imagine, it is simply a more modern camera.
Does it lack anything ? Yes, the Leica fondling factor... I use 2 M7's and an Ikon, because of the different magnifications, but this is basically it.

 

[dfoo]

I've only used by new (to me) ZM for a couple of days, but I find it much slower to load compared with my Leica's. I can load my M4-P in two seconds flat, but with the ZM I'm fumbling trying to thread the film into the takeup spool. Is there a trick I'm missing or something?

 

[grainhound]

For Toronto area residents interested in seeing a ZI before purchase, there are, in fact, at least two retailers: http://www.harrysproshop.com/ in Toronto, and www.bigcameraworkshops.com in Burlington. You can check their prices on the websites.

arseniii thought there were no local dealers, but since I bought mine from Rob, thought it was worth letting others in Toronto know that there are local options. In the end, I didn't keep the ZI, but replacing it with an M7 isn't even in my dreams. I've decided to continue using a hand held meter with older Ms, and since I shoot slowly anyway, have been happy with that. My experience with Zeiss customer service was excellent.

 

[kshapero]

I've only used by new (to me) ZM for a couple of days, but I find it much slower to load compared with my Leica's. I can load my M4-P in two seconds flat, but with the ZM I'm fumbling trying to thread the film into the takeup spool. Is there a trick I'm missing or something?

give it some time

 

[Photon42]

I've only used by new (to me) ZM for a couple of days, but I find it much slower to load compared with my Leica's. I can load my M4-P in two seconds flat, but with the ZM I'm fumbling trying to thread the film into the takeup spool. Is there a trick I'm missing or something?

Not really a trick. Push the the film leader under the flap of the right hand spool. Then pull the film cassette over to the left hand side and insert it. Tighten the film tension until the film is flat and the holes match the sprocket.