M7 versus MP

[sf]

This is a but odd, as I thought that, given that the XPan is cut from at least a bit of the same cloth as the Hexar RF (speculated at least by Dante Stella), that camera would be somewhat as stingy with battery power as the Hexar is. But I'm just guessing here, of course.


- Barrett

I have no idea - but I'm sure that the lack of major moving operations in my camera is to thank for the batteries lasting forever. I want a Leica with a 100% mechanical shutter and a very low power meter. Am I talking about an M6?

Actually, sounds like I want an M3 and a little meter for it.

 

[summilux]

between a roll of film and a battery, i think both M7 and MP are more dependent upon the former.

of course both M7 and MP are also lens dependent, and they all depend on the brain behind the viewfinder.

admit it, a camera is just dependent on lots of things.

if you want to capture the decisive moment, go for M7, if you are a fondler, go for earlier Ms.

 

[Huck Finn]

so, it seems that the M7 and ZI are nearly the same (aside from perceived build quality)?

Not really. You'd like to think that Leica would give you more than just build quality for double the money. The ZI is really a much more spartan camera. Very basic. Here are some features on the M7 that you won't find on the ZI:

- DX coding
- TTL flash metering
- over/under exposure arrows
- VF display automatically adjusts brightness for ambient light
- longer shutter speeds (M7: 4 sec manual & 32 auto; ZI: 1 & 8)
- two back-up shutter speeds (1/60 & 1/125)
- quieter cloth shutter

 

[ezio gallino]

If your working style is slow, you want keep under control all parameters, MP is a top jewel,
a masterpiece of mechanics for next century.
If you like rapid-action reportage, moment-catching, no exposure control problem M7 does his job very well.
Last question :do you prefer mechanical (virtually aeternal) or electronics (works very fine but one day or another stops his job)?

 

[jkelly]

Before I got into Leicas about a year ago, I was a manual SLR user for over 30 years (long live the Pentax K-1000!) When I got curious about "other" manual cameras, and I did some research, I decided that the Leica LTM and M fully manual models were for me. I now have almost pristine IIIa and M3 cameras that are a joy to use. I haven't found the lack of a meter much of a handicap, and the only accessory I have is an SBOOI finder for the IIIa. I just like having to make all the decisions (and therefore having total control) over the apeture and speed settings. To me, the process of framing and making the shot is the essence of photography, and gives me endless enjoyment. Who needs electronics, except for utilitarian reasons?

 

[mad_boy]

Ahhhh the Pentax K1000.

Has the most user friendly meter I have come across so far.
I wish my M had the same.

Mad_boy

 

[pesphoto]

Ahhhh the Pentax K1000.

Has the most user friendly meter I have come across so far.


Mad_boy

You got that right about the K1000. I still have mine from when I was 12 years old(now 39). And it still works like a charm.

 

[dreamsandart]

Not owned an MP, but I've picked up an MP at the shop and tried it out there. Had an M6 for many years which is basically the same camera in use. Just got an M7 a couple months back now. So far I would say the M7 is the 'better' user camera just because it does everything the M6/MP does - you can use it like a manual metering camera - and has the extra features, and even in the 'manual' mode if it matters has a more accurate and quieter shutter.

Of course having AE makes the difference here, and you can save the day ( or at least the photographic moment ) by using this fast acting feature sometimes..., and sometimes I've found that its 'too fast' and my usual Leica technique and awareness of the camera settings are lost, either the aperture or shutter are not where I'd optimally want them to be if I was 'thinking'.

I feel this will work out as I get used to the M7 and in the end all the advantages over the M6/MP will be just that - advantages. And as for batteries... remembering film has never been a problem ( well, not usually 🙂 and although I've not had to replace them, I've got a stash in the car and in two bags I use and hope that's enough.

 

[visiondr]

Ahhhh the Pentax K1000.

Has the most user friendly meter I have come across so far.
I wish my M had the same.

Mad_boy

Sorry, have to disagree there. I loved the meter view in the old Oly OM-1 best. Now that was a meter. Plus, you had the cool quirky shutter speed ring around the lens mount.

Ron

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

Holga. No Holga user ever complains about the Holga and nobody ever says that their camera pees farther than a Holga. You should get a Holga. I have one and a Lomo Lubitel 166.

 

[MP/CLE]

I love my MP... a thing of beauty and a joy forever, a work of functional art that will not be bettered (I expect). I end up using my cle and m7 a great deal more often (not because I am a collector, as I do not hesitate to use what I buy... I also keep all boxes and ephemera but do not freak if something gets dusty, scraped or finger-printed) just because they work more quickly for me and I can skip one aspect of the exposure sequence. My a la carte will be an m7, with mp appointments. I have run about a hundred rolls of film through my m7 and replaced the batteries once and have another set in the bag. Never had anything die on me in a bad place or even after leaving the meter on over a long weekend. Funny, I bought the MP for its mechanical brilliance and ability to run after the expiration of the batteries, but if I needed cash that would be the first M to go.

 

[RayPA]

I love my MP... a thing of beauty and a joy forever, a work of functional art that will not be bettered (I expect). I end up using my cle and m7 a great deal more often (not because I am a collector, as I do not hesitate to use what I buy... I also keep all boxes and ephemera but do not freak if something gets dusty, scraped or finger-printed) just because they work more quickly for me and I can skip one aspect of the exposure sequence. My a la carte will be an m7, with mp appointments. I have run about a hundred rolls of film through my m7 and replaced the batteries once and have another set in the bag. Never had anything die on me in a bad place or even after leaving the meter on over a long weekend. Funny, I bought the MP for its mechanical brilliance and ability to run after the expiration of the batteries, but if I needed cash that would be the first M to go.

I cherish my M7 a little more, too. It gets the better bag, the Luigi case, my favorite lenses. My CLE sits right up there too. Three very classy cameras that would be difficult to part with.

🙂

 

[MP/CLE]

Ray, I am not sure what it is... the auto slr's always took a back seat to my manuals, but with rangefinders, give me an m7 and cle anytime. I won't part with any of them, but the mp sits with a 35 lux asph in the number two bag... wow, now I feel I'm neglecting it and I'll have to take it fishing with my son tomorrow am. Funny, I've got Luigi cases for my cle and m7, while the mp, well, its in the bag...

 

[trph_2000]

I am somewhat new to photography and rangefinders but learn something with every roll.
I only have an M6 and MP. I concentrate mostly on street shooting and available light
shots with Tri-X. I find that even at my beginner stage I am thinking about each frame
before shooting and more often than not use exposure compensation. Luckily, my ad-
justments are generally fairly accurate and give good results (exposure wise that is,content is another matter) That's why I miss the point of the M7,in my hands I would often compen-
sate from the AE settings anyhow. Some experts say it is best to just use 1or 2 films
regularly and get an innate feel for exposure and not bother much with metering at all.

 

[LeicaLux]

I am somewhat new to photography and rangefinders but learn something with every roll.
I only have an M6 and MP. I concentrate mostly on street shooting and available light
shots with Tri-X. I find that even at my beginner stage I am thinking about each frame
before shooting and more often than not use exposure compensation. Luckily, my ad-
justments are generally fairly accurate and give good results (exposure wise that is,content is another matter) That's why I miss the point of the M7,in my hands I would often compen-
sate from the AE settings anyhow. Some experts say it is best to just use 1or 2 films
regularly and get an innate feel for exposure and not bother much with metering at all.

I am somewhat confused with your comments. You say you have an M6 and MP, but you use 'exposure compensation'.

For those that rely on AE, I can't understand how you feel responisble for the final image. You are not in total control and the way the image looks when developed is not exactly how you intended it to be (exposure-wise), but how the camera thought it should be.

For me, this takes the enjoyment out of photography. How often does light change when shooting with a Leica M? If the light in a scene decreases/increases by 1/3 stop, then 'know/learn' which way to turn the shutter/aperture dial! It's not rocket science. Just learn how much light = 1/3, 2/3 1 stop etc etc. When I'm shooting, I am constantly thinking (subconsciously) about exposure, and adjusting the shutter dial this way and that way whenever I get an 'incling' that a moment/subject of interest will present itself. This is most of the battle covered, so when I see the moment, all I need to do is compose and focus (focus can also sometimes be predicted) then press the shutter button! This may sound complicated, but becomes second nature after a little practise - street photography is the 'best' for this kind of fast changing light approach.

The manual approach, taking full responsibility for focus, composition and exposure for an image is that much more rewarding. Sure it takes practise and there is a certain level of skill involved, but isn't that what using an M is about? Using an MP as apposed to an M7 is 'not' about making photography 'harder', because while initially the learning curve may be high, the rewards quickly become obvious, and you soon realise there's no other way to shoot, but full manual.

I encourage all who aren't comfortable shooting manual to give it more of a try....just be selective of where you are metering, and the rest is a piece of cake, and will be much, much more enjoyable and 'rewarding'. I believe taht you are not totally responisble for an image unless you shoot it in manual. If you miss a shot due to slow exposure calculation, then so be it......it's those pics that 'got away' that keep you hungry for more. Just my 2c, and no disrespect to those who believe otherwise.

Cheers

 

[Tuna]

When I wanted to upgrade from my IIIc, I had to choose and I chose the MP over the M7. Though I salivated over the additional "help" extra automation in metering might provide, I knew that if I stuck to the basics - if I continued to force myself to flip through all parameters in decision making before pushing the button - I would avoid the lazy mistakes I consistently made when using 35mm cameras that allowed for AP/SP/P metering and auto-focusing that made me stop considering DOF, etc.

I also saw the advice that the M7 was better for capturing the "decisive moment" because less prep was necessary. I never had a problem doing my homework going into a scene with my IIIc and this translated to the MP - I have not had any difficulty in capturing those decisive moments.

Fully manual isn't for everyone - and I am not considering photographers ability - some have better discipline with an automated camera. I, on the other hand, have a tendency to slack and must force myself to be diligent.

Tuna

 

[trph_2000]

leicalux and tuna--I agree with your comments entirely. When I say that I use exposure
compensation on the MP and M6 I mean that I adjust to account for the brightness of the
subject compared to the background etc. and end up shooting 1 or 2 stops away from what
the meter is reading as optimal(or somtimes faster or slower). I think I would get confused
using an M7 and also get lazy and not think about the shot as much as I should. You both
expressed more clearly what I was trying to say! Thanks and happy shooting to all.

 

[Magus]

Post deleted by posters request

 

[PeterL]

When I wanted to upgrade from my IIIc, I had to choose and I chose the MP over the M7. Though I salivated over the additional "help" extra automation in metering might provide, I knew that if I stuck to the basics - if I continued to force myself to flip through all parameters in decision making before pushing the button - I would avoid the lazy mistakes I consistently made when using 35mm cameras that allowed for AP/SP/P metering and auto-focusing that made me stop considering DOF, etc.

Whatever works for you, is best. For me, I work differently with my Zorki and my OM-4T AE SLR. With the Zorki, I pre-set everything and shoot away. It's actually faster sometimes than with my SLR. Until I decide I want to have a different DOF or shutter speed, or when the light changes. Then I slow down to a crawl for a while.

With my SLR, I'm much more conscious about the DOF. First, I can preview it. Second, since it's AE, it's the only setting I change. Quick glance at the proposed shutter speed to see if I can still handhold it and I'm done. I was at the zoo with a few kids yesterday, and I took my SLR. I'm currently still more comfortable with it when it's not all about photography but also about having fun with the group.


Peter.

 

[LeicaLux]

trph_2000, understood and you certainly seem to know what you're doing.

For those that use exposure compensation, I ask you this: What is it you think you're really compensating for? Sincerley, do you think it might be a lack of confidence?

Cause really, if you think you can work out what the camera is thinking to begin with, and know exactly how much EV to compensate for, then why aren't you shooting manual to begin with? I believe my question is fair and not intended to insult or critisize those who do shoot in this way.....I just can't comprehend the thought process!

As for electronic accuracy in the M7, a very good point. Electronics has it's advantages, and like pointed out, not just for Auto-this and Auto-that. A 1/3 EV over/under-exposure can be the difference between a great image and a poor one, not tacking into account the wonders Photoshop can make upon an image, but accurate quality photography.

There is 'no substitute' for a properly prepared and executed image, none. Gees, I sound like my mother *arghhhh*