bruno7
Newbie
Hi guys,
I'm just re-posting this from another forum in a hope to get more thoughts and opinions...
So, after one year of trying to sell my other gear to be able to afford Leica and some lens, I ended up with this combination. As I wrote in my other post, the Biogon's focusing ring is a bit too stiff but I found out I can live with that, no problem.
As beautiful as this camera & lens are and however pleasing is to take photographs with it, I am not happy. Not yet.
In the last year I kept reading everywhere that M8 + Biogon 35/2 is:
sharp
very sharp
extremely sharp
clinically sharp
too sharp
or even 'I don't have to sharpen in PP, it is that sharp!'
...
Well, my combo isn't.
I don't know the exact reason for this but I am really struggling to get at least a bit of that famous 'Zeiss look' which by the way, besides sharpness, was my main reason why I bought this lens.
It seems so far that the focusing isn't accurate at all. I can get acceptable results for a distance of 3 - 5 metres, if closer it is not too good and when focused at infinity or very far, it's even worse. No sharpness at all. For example, when focused at 20 - 30m with any f-stop, it actually seems that objects closer to the camera are much sharper that objects close to the plane of focus, which is strange. As I understand, it should get gradually sharper and sharper to the point of focus and then it should gradually loose the sharpness again. Is that right? I am almost sure that the actual plane of focus is different than the one indicated and the farther the bigger is the distance between these two.
Even at medium distances (3 - 6m) I still cannot get results as sharp as I want or as they're supposed to be. No crispness, no 3D pop at all...
I've seen out of camera pictures taken at f2 that were so sharp that I couldn't believe. Pictures of a landscape or cities with building or trees in a distance very very sharp.
At f2!
Yet even when I close down to f8, the sharpness is just not there...
But I've seen numerous pictures straight out of camera that were sharp as knife! How come?
I think that the RF might be misaligned and I'm ready to send it to Solms to fix it. I've explored the infinity match a bit as well. To my eyes it looks that the patches quite match at the infinity although when testing with full moon it did not look so.
But, as for the 'look' and 3D pop and such, what can be wrong? I'm using Heliopan IR filter, I haven't coded the lens and the lens detection is set to 'Off'. Firmware 2.005.
Also, the out of camera JPEGs are not good at all as well. It does not matter that much but out of curiosity - what kind if settings do you use for in-camera sharpness, color saturation and contrast?
Could this all be a matter of the RF misalignment? Can the plane of focus or DOF with certain aperture setting be off?
I wanted to show you dng files straight from the camera, if you want to see them, I can put it up online as well. These are jpegs from C1 - no processing and no sharpening applied.
I'll try to put a link to my Dropbox folder, hope it works:
http://www.dropbox.com/gallery/8277752/1/M8 + Biogon 35?h=b0eb95
As for those images - these are only test shots, of boring objects and in dull light...
Not my normal images at all!
Their names will tell you the f-stop.
Orange building - focused on a window near the center of the frame.
Silver car - focused on a car's plate.
Blue sign - focused on a blue sign in the center of the frame.
Yellow building - focused on a window near the center of the frame.
You can clearly see that at the medium distance (the silver car shot) the focus is kind of all right although I didn't nail the f2 shot...
Take a look at the car plates in those images of buildings - the cars closer to the camera are sharper than those closer to the plane of focus.
The blue sign photo - focus was on the blue sign yet the yield sign which is much much closer to the camera appears much sharper than anything else.
At f2 the DOF at the distance of 25m is supposed to be from 13m to 400m.
Hm, I don't see it here...
Will Leica do an RF alignment even with non-Leica lens?
Will it be better after the trip to Solms?
Well, I certainly hope so.
As the lens is brand new I'm thinking about sending it back to Zeiss to either swap it for a perfect one or adjust this one for digital M. I've read somewhere that some of Zeiss lenses might be a bit off on a digital camera. Is that right?
What are your thoughts?
Sorry for too many questions...
Thanks for any help.
David
I'm just re-posting this from another forum in a hope to get more thoughts and opinions...
So, after one year of trying to sell my other gear to be able to afford Leica and some lens, I ended up with this combination. As I wrote in my other post, the Biogon's focusing ring is a bit too stiff but I found out I can live with that, no problem.
As beautiful as this camera & lens are and however pleasing is to take photographs with it, I am not happy. Not yet.
In the last year I kept reading everywhere that M8 + Biogon 35/2 is:
sharp
very sharp
extremely sharp
clinically sharp
too sharp
or even 'I don't have to sharpen in PP, it is that sharp!'
...
Well, my combo isn't.
I don't know the exact reason for this but I am really struggling to get at least a bit of that famous 'Zeiss look' which by the way, besides sharpness, was my main reason why I bought this lens.
It seems so far that the focusing isn't accurate at all. I can get acceptable results for a distance of 3 - 5 metres, if closer it is not too good and when focused at infinity or very far, it's even worse. No sharpness at all. For example, when focused at 20 - 30m with any f-stop, it actually seems that objects closer to the camera are much sharper that objects close to the plane of focus, which is strange. As I understand, it should get gradually sharper and sharper to the point of focus and then it should gradually loose the sharpness again. Is that right? I am almost sure that the actual plane of focus is different than the one indicated and the farther the bigger is the distance between these two.
Even at medium distances (3 - 6m) I still cannot get results as sharp as I want or as they're supposed to be. No crispness, no 3D pop at all...
I've seen out of camera pictures taken at f2 that were so sharp that I couldn't believe. Pictures of a landscape or cities with building or trees in a distance very very sharp.
At f2!
Yet even when I close down to f8, the sharpness is just not there...
But I've seen numerous pictures straight out of camera that were sharp as knife! How come?
I think that the RF might be misaligned and I'm ready to send it to Solms to fix it. I've explored the infinity match a bit as well. To my eyes it looks that the patches quite match at the infinity although when testing with full moon it did not look so.
But, as for the 'look' and 3D pop and such, what can be wrong? I'm using Heliopan IR filter, I haven't coded the lens and the lens detection is set to 'Off'. Firmware 2.005.
Also, the out of camera JPEGs are not good at all as well. It does not matter that much but out of curiosity - what kind if settings do you use for in-camera sharpness, color saturation and contrast?
Could this all be a matter of the RF misalignment? Can the plane of focus or DOF with certain aperture setting be off?
I wanted to show you dng files straight from the camera, if you want to see them, I can put it up online as well. These are jpegs from C1 - no processing and no sharpening applied.
I'll try to put a link to my Dropbox folder, hope it works:
http://www.dropbox.com/gallery/8277752/1/M8 + Biogon 35?h=b0eb95
As for those images - these are only test shots, of boring objects and in dull light...
Not my normal images at all!
Their names will tell you the f-stop.
Orange building - focused on a window near the center of the frame.
Silver car - focused on a car's plate.
Blue sign - focused on a blue sign in the center of the frame.
Yellow building - focused on a window near the center of the frame.
You can clearly see that at the medium distance (the silver car shot) the focus is kind of all right although I didn't nail the f2 shot...
Take a look at the car plates in those images of buildings - the cars closer to the camera are sharper than those closer to the plane of focus.
The blue sign photo - focus was on the blue sign yet the yield sign which is much much closer to the camera appears much sharper than anything else.
At f2 the DOF at the distance of 25m is supposed to be from 13m to 400m.
Hm, I don't see it here...
Will Leica do an RF alignment even with non-Leica lens?
Will it be better after the trip to Solms?
Well, I certainly hope so.
As the lens is brand new I'm thinking about sending it back to Zeiss to either swap it for a perfect one or adjust this one for digital M. I've read somewhere that some of Zeiss lenses might be a bit off on a digital camera. Is that right?
What are your thoughts?
Sorry for too many questions...
Thanks for any help.
David
Particular
a.k.a. CNNY, disassembler
I think you just need to have your RF adjusted. From the example images shown, they all seem to have a focus point closer than where you intended, and as you mentioned infinity focus was off when you aimed it at the moon. This is an easy adjustment that any half decent leica repair person can handle. You could presumably save money by not sending it to Solms, unless it is under warranty. It is unlikely that it has anything to do with the lens, although you might want to do the same test with another lens, or try yours on another body just to make sure.
ps. If you are after impossibly sharp focus, try medium or large format...
ps. If you are after impossibly sharp focus, try medium or large format...
f16sunshine
Moderator
If there is a sharp point anywhere in the photo the lens is sharp.
If this sharp point is not your focus point you need to tune your kit.
Either and/or both (lens/camera) need periodic adjustments often right out of the box.
Nice gear! Good luck and enjoy
If this sharp point is not your focus point you need to tune your kit.
Either and/or both (lens/camera) need periodic adjustments often right out of the box.
Nice gear! Good luck and enjoy
gshybrid
Well-known
You need to try at least one more lens on the camera, preferably one you know is in good adjustment. If the second lens has similar results the camera's rf needs adjustment and if the second lens focuses properly well then your 35/2 needs work. Also you'll probably need some sharping from the dng to get that super sharp zeiss look.
bruno7
Newbie
Thanks, guys.
I'm gonna try some other lens on the body but it will be difficult because there is only one decent shop here that carries some M-mount gear. I think they might have some CV glass so I'll try it on.
No chance to try a different body as I don't know anybody with an M8 or M9 over here and there are none in shops.
As for the sharpness and medium format - I actually had to sell my Hassy 501 CM to fund M8. I loved it but it got too big and heavy and I could not get a decent scans out of it - as long as I didn't want to pay for drum scans, that is.
All I want from this combo is the sharpness, color, contrast and the 'Zeiss look' which I'm seeing everywhere except in my present photos now...
I'm gonna try some other lens on the body but it will be difficult because there is only one decent shop here that carries some M-mount gear. I think they might have some CV glass so I'll try it on.
No chance to try a different body as I don't know anybody with an M8 or M9 over here and there are none in shops.
As for the sharpness and medium format - I actually had to sell my Hassy 501 CM to fund M8. I loved it but it got too big and heavy and I could not get a decent scans out of it - as long as I didn't want to pay for drum scans, that is.
All I want from this combo is the sharpness, color, contrast and the 'Zeiss look' which I'm seeing everywhere except in my present photos now...
Relax, have the rangefinder adjusted, and you'll be fine. It will be what you wanted after the adjustment.
bruno7
Newbie
Hi guys,
Sorry for the late update but I've been busy testing everything again and again.
I've tried some other lenses in a local photo store and it indeed seemed that the RF might be misaligned. I did not have a chance to try Biogon on a different body but since I had issues with its focusing ring being too stiff anyway, I decided to send a lens to Oberkochen for warranty check. By the way, the focusing ring (for those who don't know) was very very stiff when turning towards infinity and slightly smoother when turning other way. No way it could be turned using just one finger. But most strangely - it was even so much stiffer when holding the camera in the vertical position with a right side facing down! I've never even heard of this! Let alone the silent, sort of metal-based noise when turned...
So, the Biogon is off to Zeiss, hopefully they'll fix it or exchange it.
And since it will take at least two weeks, I sent my M8 off to the seller to check the RF and have it adjusted, if needed.
So, here I am, lensless & M8less, but kind of happy as I hope that it will be in a perfect working condition when I get it back.
Thanks again for all your help, I'll keep you posted.
David
Sorry for the late update but I've been busy testing everything again and again.
I've tried some other lenses in a local photo store and it indeed seemed that the RF might be misaligned. I did not have a chance to try Biogon on a different body but since I had issues with its focusing ring being too stiff anyway, I decided to send a lens to Oberkochen for warranty check. By the way, the focusing ring (for those who don't know) was very very stiff when turning towards infinity and slightly smoother when turning other way. No way it could be turned using just one finger. But most strangely - it was even so much stiffer when holding the camera in the vertical position with a right side facing down! I've never even heard of this! Let alone the silent, sort of metal-based noise when turned...
So, the Biogon is off to Zeiss, hopefully they'll fix it or exchange it.
And since it will take at least two weeks, I sent my M8 off to the seller to check the RF and have it adjusted, if needed.
So, here I am, lensless & M8less
, but kind of happy as I hope that it will be in a perfect working condition when I get it back.Thanks again for all your help, I'll keep you posted.
David
bruno7
Newbie
Hi!
So, I've got back both my M8 and Biogon after a three-week trip to Germany.
And let me tell you, what a difference it is!
M8's RF was apparently ok, so it must've been Biogon that was off.
It has been checked, cleaned and lubricated under warranty and is now fine.
Well, to be honest, I did not even expect such a difference - my combo now focuses exactly where I want it to (of course I miss sometimes...) and everything that's supposed to be sharp really is. The plane of focus seems to be much more accurate than before.
Thanks to everybody for help!
I gotta get out and do some serious shooting...
David
So, I've got back both my M8 and Biogon after a three-week trip to Germany.
And let me tell you, what a difference it is!
M8's RF was apparently ok, so it must've been Biogon that was off.
It has been checked, cleaned and lubricated under warranty and is now fine.
Well, to be honest, I did not even expect such a difference - my combo now focuses exactly where I want it to (of course I miss sometimes...) and everything that's supposed to be sharp really is. The plane of focus seems to be much more accurate than before.
Thanks to everybody for help!
I gotta get out and do some serious shooting...
David