M8 Firmware 1.10 Update

[Sailor Ted]

Digging around in the Leica Users group I found similar speculation to Ben Z.'s that there is an issue with Jenoptic as existed with Imacon regarding firmware updates. Namely DMR users were waiting for months for a firmware upgrade that would have finally allowed full potential for that camera and now Leica has discontinued the DMR (from what I can gather from that user group) and no new firmware fixes will be available for the DMR. As it now stands firmware version 1.10 for the M8 is one month past due (aprox). Could the deal between Jenoptic and Leica that flew south have anyting to do with this? Anyone here have any information? This is not an invitation to flame the M8, it's owners or Leica- this is a question for M8 owners or people who may have useful information. This is speculation seeking information- not a report that the sky is falling (yet.)

Thank you.
__________________

 

[barjohn]

Ted, what makes you think ver 1.10 is approx. one month past due. I thought Sean's threads said it was due in February and last I checked the month isn't over. I usually take that to mean the end rather than the start of February knowing software development as I do.🙂

 

[Sailor Ted]

I'll find and reference (later) the date on Leica's website (or was it in some of my lit from my camera) anyway it's late.

T

 

[kbg32]

I was told by Leica in New Jersey, that the firmware upgrade is due sometime this month. Lets wait and see before we start getting all worked up.

 

[barjohn]

Ted, See this thread I started. Apparently, there is no official Leica commitment for January or February delivery.

http://www.leica-camera-user.com/digital-forum/15984-ver-1-10-firmware-late-explanation.html#post166940

 

[Sailor Ted]

John,
I was just reading your thread on Leica-Camera seconds ago and it started me rifling though my Leica lit that came with my M8 to find the reference. I smell evasion on this one see below:

From the "Free with your Leica M8 Two infrared filters of your choice" brochure see the following quote "For wide angle lenses from 16-35mm, we recommend using 6 bit coded lenses and firmware version 1.10 or above."

I have a good nose for such and I smell something strong. What do you think as this is your field? I hope I'm wrong.

T

 

[barjohn]

Ted,
I have never seen a promissed date but I believe Leica will deliver it sooner rather than later. It is costing them both sales and repairs not to get it out so it is in their best interest. Knowing it was coming and not wanting to print out dated manuals I can understand their reference to it in the manual.

 

[Sailor Ted]

Let's hope they do not have to do any SOVIET style "Reverse Engineering" this is not a KIEV.

 

[Ben Z]

Could THIS be the web page you were thinking about Ted? About halfway down it reads:

"Our solution: We will offer special screw-on type UV/IR filters for all Leica M lenses. With respect to the Leica M's compact build the combination of a thin absorption filter on the sensor and a screw-on interference filter on the lens represents the best technical solution. It completely eliminates the color offset caused by infrared light. When using lenses from 16 to 35mm, we suggest opting for the 6-bit coded ones, in order to prevent a color offset towards the edges. No disadvantages must be expected for the images when the LEICA M8 is equipped with the latest firmware (from 1.10; available as of early December 2006).

 

[Sailor Ted]

I take in so much information regarding the M8 that while I remember most everything that seems relevant, I cannot always recall the exact location or date. A big thank you Ben- yes this looks like the one. Prey tell where did this come from? I am the last to spin my wheels in idle speculation however this smells like a real train wreck. Does anyone know when the Jenoptic deal fell through? This could give us a timeline along with Bens above reference as well as the printed brochure for free IR filters and it's lead time given it’s extraordinary print quality, it was not "rushed." With these three factors we can triangulate a possible scenario for the actual state of firmware development.

 

[Ben Z]

Prey tell where did this come from?

Click on the word THIS in my previous post. It's straight off Leica's website.

I wouldn't be too quick to present the "train wreck" theory either. Leica may not be motivated to spend the money getting someone else to take over for Imacon in the case of the DMR because they've probably sold 99% of the DMR's they're going to sell. In the case of the M8, it's a new product and even if Jenoptik is out, I can't imagine Leica not doing whatever they have to to get another company to step in and take over the M8 firmware job. It may take longer though, and I wouldn't expect Leica to be candid about it if this is in fact the case...as it would surely cause a M8 sales to make a screeching panic stop. This kind of thing is the problem a company like Leica--and its customers--faces because of having to outsource the majority of technical developments in the digital sphere.

 

[StuartR]

If there is one thing Leica has learned, it is not to rush things. I am sure that they are taking their time getting this out. It is not in their best interest to release it with a known issue. The version 1.2 firmware of the DMR was an example of this, and they are still having trouble with that (had they gotten it right the first time, we might not have needed a 1.3, and consequently there would be no friction with Imacon). Besides, the date is currently listed as February, and it is still early February. It is a short month, let's have some patience.

 

[ywenz]

Leica has stopped further development on the DMR? what a sad state of things.. So what? Ppl are paying a good chunk of money for a product that has reach End of Life?

 

[Olsen]

Sailor Ted,

What problems are you hoping that a 1.10 up-date will solve?

 

[Sailor Ted]

If the camera has a lock up issue, and I’m not at all certain that it does, in fact I feel it’s most likely an EFR issue as my camera has no such issues but still... the fix for cyan shift when IR filters are used with 35mm and wider lenses coded would be nice however this is being solved with Lightroom so no big deal. The real issue here is if Leica has lost the source code for firmware this will tie their hands for a very long time while they try and play catch up and this does not bode well for any future fixes that may need to be performed on a new piece of computer equipment. And let’s face it, all digi-cams are as much computers as they are cameras. Not only is the M8 a new computer/ camera it's also a new OS.

 

[sreidvt]

The date I published from Leica was "February, 2007". Publicly announced aspects of that firmware include a fix for the vertical band and correction for cyan drift (with coded lenses). That's not an exhaustive list, simply two features that have been discussed publicly.

Cheers,

Sean

 

[kbg32]

Leica NJ mentioned that the firmware update should fix the problem of the original battery not charging fully. Though I don't understand how. Their fix was to leave the camera on overnight, letting the battery run down and recharging. They said that this may need 2-3 discharges to get the battery to charge fully. The 2 additional batteries I've purchased have charged fully, showing 3 bars in the camera.

 

[Sailor Ted]

Sean and crew,
At Photokina Leica announced that they would be aquireing Sinar from Jenoptic- this was Sept. 30.

On Friday November 24 DP Review prints this from Leica:
"When using lenses from 16 to 35mm, we suggest opting for the 6-bit coded ones, in order to prevent a color offset towards the edges. No disadvantages must be expected for the images when the LEICA M8 is equipped with the latest firmware (from 1.10; available as of early December 2006)." This is also posted on Leica's website.

On December 13 The Jenoptik Group rescinds the sale of its 51 percent of the shares in Sinar AG to Leica Camera AG.

The fact Leica announced a firmware upgrade for early December and the silence regarding said upgrade following the collapse of the buy out seems hardly a coincidence so...

Where is the past due 1.10 firmware from "Leica?" Sean do you have any insider knowledge? I feel sure that if such a firmware upgrade existed Leica would have it out with their beta testers (not their M8 customers- wise guys : )

 

[Ben Z]

The press release regarding the Jenoptik/Leica/Sinar snafu puzzled me at the time. It said (paraphrasing) Jenoptik was pulling back from the sale of Sinar to Leica due to something they didn't like about Leica's leadership ("unclear" or something to that effect). But in the same breath it said Jenoptik was reserving the right to recover "damages" from Leica due to the failed sale. Didn't make sense to me if Jenoptik pulled out based on their own conception, rather than a breach committed by Leica, what kind of case they could make for damages. So in all it sounded like heated posturing (my-lawyer-is-bigger-than-your-lawyer). It then went on to say that other relations between the two were unaffected "at present"--which is basically a meaningless statement. Clearly there was not a mutual decision and it doesn't sound like an amicable split to me. Even if there remains a contractual obligation for Jenoptik to support the M8 for it's planned product life, it probably doesn't specify what's a "reasonable" time-frame to develop firmware upgrades, and I suspect Jenoptik could drag it out for a long, long time, with Leica's only recourse being to take them to court--and we all know how quick those wheels turn :bang:

Oddly, given the recent hit their credibility with customers took with the IR filter issue, Leica did not issue a statement at the time, nor since, to allay fears and speculation. As someone who piloted a decent-sized company at one time, when I look at Leica the question that keeps coming to mind is "who's flying the plane?".

 

[Sailor Ted]

This is the exact wording in English:

"he sale of the Sinar shares to Leica Camera AG had been agreed and published at short notice at Photokina in Cologne at the end of September 2006. The transfer of the shares to Leica Camera AG was subject to contractual conditions which have not been fully completed to date. By rescinding from the contract, Jenoptik intends to avert damage from Sinar AG due to unclear ownership structures. Jenoptik reserves the right to assert against Leica Camera AG claims for damage resulting from the failed sale. At present, other business relations between Jenoptik and Leica Camera AG are not effected by today's decisions.

The measure was supported by the market success of the new Hy6 medium-format camera for professional photographers, which Jenoptik developed in conjunction with partners, amongst others Franke & Heidecke. This camera, to which experts give excellent marks, was presented by Jenoptik at this year's Photokina for the first time. It will be distributed in the market also by Sinar, as had originally been planned. This means that Sinar will remain part of the activities in the digital imaging area of the Jenoptik Group."

PS. I too run a company. A high-end electronics company that caters to a niche market and more like Leica then I care to admit. If they had a melt down with Jenoptik, and if this melt down has cast into question who owns the M8's "kernel" for its firmware, it's OS, then this is more serious then many people can imagine. Leica needs to step up to the plate on this one, announce when 1.10 will arrive, or come clean with a new game plan for victory. Sound familiar to anything else in current events?

I’m sorry I put these pieces together, and I’m certain I’m not the first but when you see the timeline of events certain conclusions seem probable.

Also on Sean Reids sight in section four for the M8, it clearly states early December for a 1.10 firmware roll out (1.10 or higher no less).