M8 Price Hike

naos said:
That's because there are so many collectors out there that would rather fondle their cameras and show them behind display cases than actually use them. :bang:

Seriously, If I ever became mega rich, I would buy all the 'anniversary' and 'collector'' set's I could find; use the crap out of 'em, then donate them to up and coming photo students.

It really kills me to see such fine photo instruments being left unused. I was in my local camera district the other day and many of the store clerks almost had a heart attack when they saw my MP around my neck. They couldn't believe I actually used it. They commented on how scratched up and dinged it was (it's actually quite tame compared to most I've seen on this board).

Why doesn't Leica take into account all the real photographers who helped them build their name? What will happen when many of the old timers kick the bucket and there's nothing left but young blood who have no interest in Leica because Canon and Nikon were the only things accessible to them when they were learning about photography?

Leica really needs to get away from the whole 'Luxury Item' Hermes way of thinking and start working on becoming a working man's camera company again. Even working paid pro's on the LUF are commenting on how the rising Leica prices are out of their budgets.

There's no doubt I literally went to hell and back to pay for all my Leica gear, but there's only so much a young man can take. I really do hope the company takes on a new direction. I have a feeling that what happens at Photokina 2008 will either make or breaK LEICA
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Collectors? Of Leica M8-s??:confused:
I don't think there is one person at the Leica factory that sees their products as anything else than user products - except of course for special cases like the charity auction of the first M8 and the last clearance of Noctiluxes.
Nor do I know of anybody buiyng any of the current lineup as collectibles - there is no prospect of gain in collecting.

I don't know about your camera store - but at mine beat-up Leicas are a common sight and only rouse a comment like -fine camera -any nice shots lately?. or similar.
 
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They do what they need to do to make money. I'm surprised at all of the vitriol here. If their market is price insensitive then good for them for raising prices. They would be derelict in the fiduciary duty to the company if they didn't. It's called "leaving money on the table". No company wants to do that.

Another idea - this could presage the introduction of a lower end digital M at Photokina. Leica would likely need to create a price umbrella for it. Raising the price of the M8 could do just that.

And what's wrong with owning a digital camera that keeps appreciating in price? Isn't digital price depreciation what everyone said would be the undoing of Leica? Looks like they've found a way to make their digital camera APPRECIATE in value over time. Mirabilu dictu!

/T
 
Am I supporting the wrong team?

Am I supporting the wrong team?

Come to think of it, I think I just might start spending my money on Voigtlander/Zeiss out of pure support of concept. They are the ones that are actually driving the RF industry into the future by making their gear affordable and catering to the younger generation. It seems like all the new and young exciting talent these days are using Bessa's and Ikon's. If you don't believe me, just check the quality of photos you see and the Bessa/Ikon Flickr Group as compared to the Leica M/M8 Group.

Leica really needs to start catering to the younger 20 something crowd. We are the future Bressons.....
 
jaapv said:
Collectors? Of Leica M8-s??:confused:
I don't think there is one person at the Leica factory that sees their products as anything else than user products - except of course for special cases like the charity auction of the first M8 and the last clearance of Noctiluxes.
Nor do I know of anybody buiyng any of the current lineup as collectibles - there is no prospect of gain in collecting.

I don't know about your camera store - but at mine beat-up Leicas are a common sight and only rouse a comment like -fine camera -any nice shots lately?. or similar.
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Jaap,

while I don't doubt that, for the most part, the standard production of M's (M8's, M7's and MP's for example) are exactly as you state, that is; "user products" what about all those "special editions" that Leica issues?

Leica knows they have a market with collectors regardless of how many of us are "users".

I don't believe the M8 is (or could be) a collectible but there are definitely collectors out there or why would Leica have produced all those "wacky" M's in the past (Ein Stuck, Panda, Titanium, etc. etc. etc.)

Cheers,
Dave
 
Jaap, come on now....you know how Leica collectors are..... In the Leica world, the M8 is doomed to be a collectors item. It's the first digital M! 10-15 years from now I can see M8 going for the big bucks, regardless if their electronics work or are outdated. Case in point, I saw a collector the other day purchase a BNIB Digilux 2 for $1300 because he thought it would be a good future investment.....I dread to think that maybe he's right........
 
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Tuolumne said:
And what's wrong with owning a digital camera that keeps appreciating in price? Isn't digital price depreciation what everyone said would be the undoing of Leica? Looks like they've found a way to make their digital camera APPRECIATE in value over time. Mirabilu dictu!

/T
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Well, we'll see if this holds true over time.

Current used M8 prices are in the $3500-$3700 range.
The M8 has already undergone one price hike (that I can recall). Undergoing a second price hike does not necessarily mean that the used prices will jump accordingly.

Cheers,
Dave
 
The UK list price is the equivalent of 8870NZ$ although no dealers here are actually selling them at that.

Plus Leica is offering a £400 cashback and 2 year passport at the moment.

Standard paasport on the M8 in the UK is 1 year.

Regards

SR
 
Or maybe if you aren't selling them anyway, it really doesn't matter how high you mark them up! I would guess this close to Photokina, Leica isn't selling many of anything.
 
I recently sold my M6 to raise funds for my M8. It was in excellent condition, but the guy I sold it to whinged like a baby because of a few hairline scratches on the baseplate. Turned out that he owned five other M6's and god knows what else. I really wanted to sell it to somebody who would appreciate it and use it, but I definitely got the feeling that it's going to sit on a shelf. Even if the Leica tech's don't feel as though they're creating collector's items, I suspect the powers that be know the market all too well, and although I don't have the education or common sense to know how the aftermarket affects what's produced, I'm sure there's some corellation that a cynical manufacturer knows how to manipulate.

The current technology creates a problem in that people aren't going to be as satisfied with what they've got for as long as they would've been after they bought a new film Leica. We always think we're just a eureka away from something that's going to create mindblowing images that mesh perfectly with our lack of skill (I'm speaking for myself, mainly:)) I sincerely hope the M8 doesn't become a 'cult' camera when they announce the M9, but there's no reason why it won't become 'collectible'. There'll be more than a few pristine examples sitting in storage as we speak.

So there you go. There's a point and a lesson in there. Somewhere.
 
pmu said:
Absolutely ridiculous. I hope Leica would go out of business for good.
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And who benefits from that? What purpose does it serve? :confused:

Be careful about what you wish...

Bottom line: Leica hikes the price of their only digital rangefinder. Instead of crying and deploring, we simply turn somewhere else... hoping there are enough rich buyers to keep the company in business. After all, without current new Leica products there won't be future used Leica stuff.

Time to go and use my cameras! :)
 
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Tuolumne is right. Leica has what appears to be perfectly inelastic demand for its products. They are in a niche market serving the top end of the income bracket to whom price is not particularly an issue. They put their prices up once or twice every year, most customers know that and it will continue unless the demand for their products becomes elastic.
 
Can anyone remember when Leica prices went DOWN? Even the used market is rising. My MP has seen a $750 bump since I bought it last year.....
 
Just to add, the main reason why I hope that the M8 doesn't become collectible is that if and when I come to sell it, I don't have the buyer whining because it's not as pristine as the other nine he or she owns. Saying that, I fully intend to become rich or enlightened enough not to worry about whether or not I've just scratched the camera on a shirt button, or something.
 
Oh, not again!

Salaries and other cost factors has hardly risen in Germany since the M8 was introduced. (well, a few percent) - In euros.

In US$ - particularly, but also ozzy-dollars, the price - cost value, has risen dramatically, - in pace with the fall of the above currencies.

The Leica managment is not playing around with some fancy 'pricing strategy' or 'are cynical manufactorers that manipulate the market'. They are fighting for survival. Like a lot of high profile European exporters dependant on the US market.

The Leica managment is the ones that 'have contact with the real world'. Those claiming otherwise don't.

The price of Leica gear (petrol, Ferrari's, Gucci shoes,rice, grain etc. etc.) is indeed a result of the turbulance of the currency market these days.

I pointed to earlier here that the US dollar has indeed picked up 10% towards the Euro. We were discussing, heavily (at the OT Forum here) if this increase in dollar value was something that will last and pick up. - Or that we will see further slide of the dollar value. someone here pointed to that, indeed, Leica do run a campaign in USA these days offering a 500 $ rebate. Not bad, he?

It would not suprise me that Ferrari, Porsche, Gucci and - Eurofighter, Airbus, are offering similar rebates these days. - 'Now' is the time to buy that fighter jet that you have always wanted, - along with those yellow snake skin Gucci's - and a M8 to carry over your shoulder.
 
they can do what they like, but I have already been priced out of the Leica market. That might not matter to Leica - who knows. Now it is CV, Zeiss and possibly used gear. I use my kit and unless it offers the appriate bang fo the buck, there is no point. I think with the arrival of Zeiss ZM lenses, that point was reached some time ago. Now it is $4500 for an MP...I was left behind some time ago. Thanks goodness I own two bodies.
 
Olsen, If it truly is the value of the US$ you speak of that is driving the current Leica prices, than why haven't we seen such dramatic price increases in VC/Zeiss?
 
Good point well made, Olson. I would say though, that part of Leica's strategy for survival is going to have to be to continue taking advantage of one of their main attributes; the cachet and collectibility of their cameras. It's up to us how much we buy into that. I have no doubt that Leica continues to produce some of the best cameras ever made, regardless of their retail price or their myth. I was just lucky enough to be able to afford one.
 
naos said:
Olsen, If it truly is the value of the US$ you speak of that is driving the current Leica prices, than why haven't we seen such dramatic price increases in VC/Zeiss?
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Because the Japanese Yen hasn't appreciated as much towards the dollar as the Euro. That simple.
 
Whenever I am around with my M6 everyone is surprised to see that it is a film camera, they think its one of those cheapo panasonics with a red dot on it and thumb their noses at me thinking im stupid for spending extra money on a dot. Leica needs to ditch panasonic because they have a very poor image here in China where usually people are very keen about high grade "image" products. Only the select few who know what an m6 is would find it interesting, and for the rest its just a 500 dollar plastic sticker. I dont think that Leica sticking on the train and saying they are coming out with new digital cameras is very productive for their future, after all they seem really paranoid about mentioning panasonic makes their cameras or that its not a made in Germany thing anymore as much as it is a Portugal or Japan thing.

Anyway...Leica should team up with Volkswagen and make the Volkskamera, at least it would still be made in Germany.
 
Olsen said:
Because the Japanese Yen hasn't appreciated as much towards the dollar as the Euro. That simple.
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That could be part of it, but I still think that Leica is exploiting it's name and heritage to the collectors. They know the collectors will pay whatever price they put designated. It's like the old story of throwing a frog in a boiling pot of water: it will jump right out......but if you put a frog in a pot of water at room temperture and slowy increase the temperture to boiling.....

I love Leica and the tools they provides us, but at the same time, I hate the fact they are alienating those who actually want to USE their products.
 
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