jimbobuk
Established
bluepenguin, you are right.. I'm very guilty of getting too obsessed on it all.. though to be honest in this example I think the benefits are very real when looking at that sample.
Your point about delays is a big one depending on how you handle raw files but with most of my cameras i shoot raw because i am so amateur.. its the added tolerance that raw gives me that lets me get away with making worse decisions at the point of capture.
Gabriel M.A., do you use the JFI profiles that sean recommended on his site? I've used them whenever i do black and white and do love the simplicity and effect of them. To be honest i've never really mastered tweaking a b&w picture to get an even more dramatic effect by pushing the contrast or dodge/burn it.. I would love to dabble sometime though.
Finally, Grober I'm a real fan of the workflow of capture one, i encourage you to stick with it.. its got some quirks but its very quick to process a lot of pictures, I'm a fan of the picture quality as well.. its this workflow though that perhaps removes the problems bluepenguin sites as reason to not use raw. That coupled to my new core2 duo pc and now raw conversion is quicker than copying off the camera/cards. I'd certainly never want to do raw in photoshop, it seems so clunky and slow versus c1pro and some of the other more streamlined programs.
cheers
Your point about delays is a big one depending on how you handle raw files but with most of my cameras i shoot raw because i am so amateur.. its the added tolerance that raw gives me that lets me get away with making worse decisions at the point of capture.
Gabriel M.A., do you use the JFI profiles that sean recommended on his site? I've used them whenever i do black and white and do love the simplicity and effect of them. To be honest i've never really mastered tweaking a b&w picture to get an even more dramatic effect by pushing the contrast or dodge/burn it.. I would love to dabble sometime though.
Finally, Grober I'm a real fan of the workflow of capture one, i encourage you to stick with it.. its got some quirks but its very quick to process a lot of pictures, I'm a fan of the picture quality as well.. its this workflow though that perhaps removes the problems bluepenguin sites as reason to not use raw. That coupled to my new core2 duo pc and now raw conversion is quicker than copying off the camera/cards. I'd certainly never want to do raw in photoshop, it seems so clunky and slow versus c1pro and some of the other more streamlined programs.
cheers
einolu
Well-known
bluepenguin said:
with programs like lightroom and aperture, dealing and quickly editing a bunch of raw files isn't a very big issue, especially if you just want to find the keepers which you can edit more in depth later. learning new software is a pain though and its time consuming.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
bluepenguin said:
It is really not much time lost to shoot RAW:
Open C1 LE, open the collection you want to do, set the profile in the workflow box and click on the relevant thumbnail.
Set colourbalance as needed, exposure/curves, noise reduction and sharpening as desired, all this just like working with a Jpeg in PS and just as fast, and save.
Move to the next thumbnail etc.
When you have done, export to for instance PSE5 in TIFF 16 bits, and get coffee while the digital wizardry does its work.
Then in Photoshop,if desired finetune, crop, resize and print.
All this is just what you would have been doing to a Jpeg, maybe a few seconds more , but just that.
In lightroom it is of course even faster. Develop, adjust, print or export.... You don't even notice the difference between Jpeg and DNG.
bottley1
only to feel
Jpeg is a compression protacol that cannot be reversed. Shoot raw, fine-tune the image to your total satisfaction, and save as a tiff or jpeg. Keep the raw file as your archive "negative". The raw files obtained from a M8 leave me speechless, they are so finely detailed and richly coloured.....lovely
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Shooting a camera like the M8 (or any high end camera for that matter) in Jpeg to me is like using a M7 and making 10x 15 cm prints in a one-hour lab only..
cmogi10
Bodhisattva
I shot JPEG's for a while only because my computer really couldn't handle shooting RAW, it was super frustrating but when that wasn't an issue anymore RAW seems like the only way to go.
I will ocasionally shoot in DNG-JPEG black and white for my own self indulgent chimping.
I will ocasionally shoot in DNG-JPEG black and white for my own self indulgent chimping.
summilux
Well-known
my experience so far of M8 is that its auto WB and jpeg engine do not work, once you start select the WB manually or use DNG, the files it produces are just stunning. so don't expect automation from Leica, even for a digital camera.
chocodip
Newbie
hi guys, sorry to ask a stupid question (i just bot athe M8 2 days ago)........the RAW format talking about is the DNG? coz i wanna try the RAW format as well but i m not sure if DNG is the RAW you guys been talking about here.
Please do help me about it.
Please do help me about it.
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
Hi Jim,jimbobuk said:
No, I haven't. I don't read "Sean" 's site at all (I don't have a subscription), so all I hear about the site is what I read here. I think I remember seeing a page about those profiles, but I think it's a little pricey, if memory serves me correctly. I already have a plug-in that gives me total control over B&W "film" response to color (all things considered).
Contrast, multicontrast, dodging and burning (again, *always* use the History Brush)...it's a pain in ze @ss, but the results are worth it.
jimbobuk
Established
fair enough.. my subscription lapsed so i can't read it anymore either
The profiles are good to my eyes, and simple to use, they also only cost about $15 i think, which is nothing. What do you use instead?
I've heard alien skin exposure is one of the best out there, but is indeed very expensive.
The profiles are good to my eyes, and simple to use, they also only cost about $15 i think, which is nothing. What do you use instead?
I've heard alien skin exposure is one of the best out there, but is indeed very expensive.
baycrest
Established
About the best you can say...
About the best you can say...
Is that "there's room for improvment in Leica's M8 Jpeg engine". To be blunt, it falls far short of Canon and Nikon DSLR jpegs. Its a good thing I shoot 100% in RAW or I'd really be disappointed.
About the best you can say...
Is that "there's room for improvment in Leica's M8 Jpeg engine". To be blunt, it falls far short of Canon and Nikon DSLR jpegs. Its a good thing I shoot 100% in RAW or I'd really be disappointed.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
chocodip said:
Yes.............
etrigan63
Rangefinder Padawan
My M8 has never shot anything but DNG in my hands (can't say about when it was the demo unit...).
HenningW
Well-known
Besides giving you the best quality the camera is capable of, DNG is also faster. The buffer clears significantly faster and your images are ready for chimping sooner if you shoot DNG. JPEG is a fair bit slower, and DNG+JPEG is slowest; about 2.5x as slow. I hardly ever run up agains the buffer limit shooting DNG, but did when I tried JPEG.
In any case, Lightroom makes shooting anything other than DNG (or other formats of RAW) pointless since it's so quick to batch process to jpegs which are significantly better quality than those the camera itself can produce.
Hennning
In any case, Lightroom makes shooting anything other than DNG (or other formats of RAW) pointless since it's so quick to batch process to jpegs which are significantly better quality than those the camera itself can produce.
Hennning
chuckcars
Member
This camera was designed around DNG processing. Also, C1. IMHO Lightroom and Adobe Raw converter are not nearly as accurate and easy to work with.
Benjamin Marks
Veteran
"Should" "only" Arg. Look. If you have space for 50 shots left on your SD card and switching to jpg gets you to 179 shots or something like that, then it is better to have a jpg than no image. If you are shooting snapshots and already have your 14GB of data for the month sitting on your hard drive, then shoot jpg. If you have an expo-disk and won't need to do any post processing to color temp or exposure, then by all means shoot jpg. If you will never print an image larger than 4x6, then first buy a Canon G9, and THEN shoot jpg. If you want to preserve your processing options and high quality image files are a must, then shoot RAW.
Also: agree with Henning.
Ben
Also: agree with Henning.
Ben
DaveB
Established
I regret every picture I ever took that wasn't (or didn't include) RAW format.
The M8's JPEGS can be kinda ugly and the WB, though getting better, still isn't up to snuff. I think Canon's JPEGS are pretty good right out of the camera.
Those JFI profiles make for lovely B&W's, much nicer than I can do with PS. Though Silkypix yields very nice B&W's too.
The best reason to shoot RAW, however, is the tremendous exposure latitude it allows and the ability to go back and recover highlight/shadow detail, etc. as well as adjust WB properly.
After conversion to JPEG that ability is gone, gone, gone.
The M8's JPEGS can be kinda ugly and the WB, though getting better, still isn't up to snuff. I think Canon's JPEGS are pretty good right out of the camera.
Those JFI profiles make for lovely B&W's, much nicer than I can do with PS. Though Silkypix yields very nice B&W's too.
The best reason to shoot RAW, however, is the tremendous exposure latitude it allows and the ability to go back and recover highlight/shadow detail, etc. as well as adjust WB properly.
After conversion to JPEG that ability is gone, gone, gone.
jvr
Well-known
jimbobuk said:
I shoot almost everything in DNG and process it in C1 or Lightroom (I'm a die-hard C1'er but trying to give LR a break...
). Only if I need fast access to the images I shoot DNG+JPG, usually 6 mpix. But even then I'll convert to full-size JPG with C1...Colour/White balancing on JPG is still a bit "crude" on the M8. Maybe on the next versions of the firmware?
peterm1
Veteran
I recently posted this at another thread adn will now ask it here too.
In terms of digital I currently only shoot a Nikon D70s and use JPGs . It has been suggested that I shoot RAW which is an option with the Nikon although I simply have not tried it yet so do not know what I am up for. I understand that DNG is Leicas equivalent (?????) My questions........ What software do you use for post processing these file types- RAW DNG etc I mean. I have long used Photoshop but so far as I know it does not support these files - unless there are plug ins available. If not, can someone describe the typical workflow when using such image types. I presume that they must be converted to JPG or similar at some stage if you print and maybe for post processing unless there is software available that handles this file type. I am interested to know what options I have. I take it from the context of these posts that "Aperture" is software but can someone please educate me starting, BTW with, what is the advantage of shooting RAW / DNG? I understand they have a better color range but is this the main thing and does it really matter?ly posted this on another thread and will put it here too for an answer.
In terms of digital I currently only shoot a Nikon D70s and use JPGs . It has been suggested that I shoot RAW which is an option with the Nikon although I simply have not tried it yet so do not know what I am up for. I understand that DNG is Leicas equivalent (?????) My questions........ What software do you use for post processing these file types- RAW DNG etc I mean. I have long used Photoshop but so far as I know it does not support these files - unless there are plug ins available. If not, can someone describe the typical workflow when using such image types. I presume that they must be converted to JPG or similar at some stage if you print and maybe for post processing unless there is software available that handles this file type. I am interested to know what options I have. I take it from the context of these posts that "Aperture" is software but can someone please educate me starting, BTW with, what is the advantage of shooting RAW / DNG? I understand they have a better color range but is this the main thing and does it really matter?ly posted this on another thread and will put it here too for an answer.
etrigan63
Rangefinder Padawan
Ummm, the DNG format was created by Adobe. Unless you are using Photoshop v5 any current release that has the Camera RAW plugin can read DNG files. I personally use BibblePro for RAW conversion. It has an excellent plugin systems that allows for excellent B&W conversions and takes advantage of the latest multi-core CPU's. It is avaialble on Windows, Mac, & Linux.
Here is a sample I shot with my M8 in RAW mode and converted to B&W:
Here is a sample I shot with my M8 in RAW mode and converted to B&W: