aldenfender
Established
Hello again all,
Just recently sent my M8 to have a vertical line removed, got it back not too long ago after spending 200 bucks to have the problem fixed. Used he camera twice, now again another vertical line is showing up, this time instead of being in the lower left its in the upper left side of images directly over the old vertical line.
What causes this? should I have the sensor replaced, what other options are out there for me? or should I just sell the camera as is, and get a new one?
Help is extremely appreciated, I love using this style of camera, but if this is the way its going to be, I would rather get a canon and stick with something that wont mess up every other week.
I'm so frustrated and disappointed at the moment.
Just recently sent my M8 to have a vertical line removed, got it back not too long ago after spending 200 bucks to have the problem fixed. Used he camera twice, now again another vertical line is showing up, this time instead of being in the lower left its in the upper left side of images directly over the old vertical line.
What causes this? should I have the sensor replaced, what other options are out there for me? or should I just sell the camera as is, and get a new one?
Help is extremely appreciated, I love using this style of camera, but if this is the way its going to be, I would rather get a canon and stick with something that wont mess up every other week.
I'm so frustrated and disappointed at the moment.
Olsen
Well-known
Are you sure that your camera went all the way back to Solms for fixing? If not, it just not might be fixed at all. I would make a reject on the repair job.
1)
All (absolutely all!) the M8 I know of have been to Solms for fixing of this Red Line Problem.
2)
All (up untill now I was absolutely sure that it was 'all') have had this problem fixed permanently.
Usually, Leica Solms do the job 'for free'. You just have to pay the transport - or any 'fee' the dealer you handle it through might add on.
1)
All (absolutely all!) the M8 I know of have been to Solms for fixing of this Red Line Problem.
2)
All (up untill now I was absolutely sure that it was 'all') have had this problem fixed permanently.
Usually, Leica Solms do the job 'for free'. You just have to pay the transport - or any 'fee' the dealer you handle it through might add on.
dcsang
Canadian & Not A Dentist
I would concur with Olsen on this.
I had, when I owned an M8, a similar issue. It was sent back to Solms, they replaced the sensor, and it had worked fine ever since.
It's got to have the sensor replaced - I've never heard of anyone having it "fixed" while maintaining the same sensor within the camera.
Cheers,
Dave
I had, when I owned an M8, a similar issue. It was sent back to Solms, they replaced the sensor, and it had worked fine ever since.
It's got to have the sensor replaced - I've never heard of anyone having it "fixed" while maintaining the same sensor within the camera.
Cheers,
Dave
aldenfender
Established
That would make sense to me, replacing the whole sensor itself.
It never went to solms, they did the pixel remaping, as they called it in NJ from what I understand.
It never went to solms, they did the pixel remaping, as they called it in NJ from what I understand.
dcsang
Canadian & Not A Dentist
The thing is, if it's outside of warranty (don't know what the period is or how old the camera is) replacing the sensor could prove to be pricey I would think.. *sigh* - I wonder if replacing curtains / shutters would be expensive...
Cheers,
Dave
Cheers,
Dave
Ronald M
Veteran
This is why I would not buy a used digi camera/
Create an action in PS to clone out the line. ACR automatically fixes dead or stuck pixels.
http://www.yvs.eu.com/documentation/pixelmapping.html
put pixel mapping in your favorite search engine and see what you can find in addition to above.
Best is a free fix from Leica and I would get a cost from NJ first.
Create an action in PS to clone out the line. ACR automatically fixes dead or stuck pixels.
http://www.yvs.eu.com/documentation/pixelmapping.html
put pixel mapping in your favorite search engine and see what you can find in addition to above.
Best is a free fix from Leica and I would get a cost from NJ first.
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
NJ should have replaced the sensor--make 'em do it.
Olsen
Well-known
I have also had my M8 repaired in Solms. But I am not at all sure it was a matter of 'replacing the sensor'. - I don't know what Leica did to fix the problem. I have heard a lot of different explanations on different Leica forums. Like 'remapping' - whatever that is.
Consumer protection is far better here in Europe. This is the environment that Leica is used to work in. That's why Leica has helped out a lot of M8 buyers, many of them 2.hand buyers, 'free of charge' when fixing the Red Line Problem. If your local dealer - or Leica New Jersey - wherever that is, won't help, try to take contact with Leica directly by e-mail.
Consumer protection is far better here in Europe. This is the environment that Leica is used to work in. That's why Leica has helped out a lot of M8 buyers, many of them 2.hand buyers, 'free of charge' when fixing the Red Line Problem. If your local dealer - or Leica New Jersey - wherever that is, won't help, try to take contact with Leica directly by e-mail.
ampguy
Veteran
no problems here, you need to get a good one, within a good s/n range. these ranges can be found on the l-camera forum.
dcsang
Canadian & Not A Dentist
So the onus is on the BUYER and not the MAKER of the product?
I'd hate to think if that was the case with other manufacture defects what would happen with automobile makers... "Oh.... too bad your Ford Pinto exploded when you got hit in the rear by a pick up truck, mine works fine, you just need to get a good serial numbered Pinto.."
Dave
Olsen
Well-known
Sorry, but there is no such thing as a 'good' serial number range. That has been an established fact among the Leica community. Even several M8.2's have been to Solms for the Red Line Fix...
The M8s here in Norway (all of them with the Red Line!) were cameras bought several years apart and at different dealers around the world; From Oslo, NY (most of them!) and Singapore. Even the only Singaporean M8 owner I know have had his M8 to Solms too. Even new cameras at Norwegian dealers, not yet used by customers, have been found to be with the Red Line.
My clear advice to 2.hand buyers of M8s is to make sure that the camera in question really has been to Solms for the Red Line Fix. If not; Don't buy, - or expect that it has to be done. If it has been fixed - it's OK, and you should expect that the fix is permanent. For all the cases I know (that's a few), that has been the case. So far...
ampguy
Veteran
Hi Dave
Hi Dave
when buying a used boutique item from a relatively small manufacturer, yes, I do think the onus is on the buyer to do their own research, with or without supplemental warranties from the manufacturer or 3rd parties.
For the used car market, you can look up TSB's and verify that they have been corrected by previous owners - highly recommended if you're looking at Pintos.
For vintage cars, many decades old, a car with records of who modified what, and when, is often worth multiples of a vintage car in similar condition without the records.
Same with vintage guitars and amps. Back in the day, they experimented a lot, and used a lot of different one-offs when stocks were low, so one "minty" example could sound, look, and behave, much differently than another "minty" example.
Hi Dave
when buying a used boutique item from a relatively small manufacturer, yes, I do think the onus is on the buyer to do their own research, with or without supplemental warranties from the manufacturer or 3rd parties.
For the used car market, you can look up TSB's and verify that they have been corrected by previous owners - highly recommended if you're looking at Pintos.
For vintage cars, many decades old, a car with records of who modified what, and when, is often worth multiples of a vintage car in similar condition without the records.
Same with vintage guitars and amps. Back in the day, they experimented a lot, and used a lot of different one-offs when stocks were low, so one "minty" example could sound, look, and behave, much differently than another "minty" example.
So the onus is on the BUYER and not the MAKER of the product?
I'd hate to think if that was the case with other manufacture defects what would happen with automobile makers... "Oh.... too bad your Ford Pinto exploded when you got hit in the rear by a pick up truck, mine works fine, you just need to get a good serial numbered Pinto.."
Dave
ampguy
Veteran
Hi Olsen
Hi Olsen
Go and check the l-camera forums where people spoke with Leica directly about M8 s/n ranges.
I don't believe that all M8s in Norway have red line issues, but I can believe that a certain batch got sent there ...
Mine also doesn't have the screen "coffee cup" syndrome, that you've reported yours did. Do all M8s in Norway also have this issue??
Is it possible that folks in Norway are having a shortage in coasters??
Hi Olsen
Go and check the l-camera forums where people spoke with Leica directly about M8 s/n ranges.
I don't believe that all M8s in Norway have red line issues, but I can believe that a certain batch got sent there ...
Mine also doesn't have the screen "coffee cup" syndrome, that you've reported yours did. Do all M8s in Norway also have this issue??
Is it possible that folks in Norway are having a shortage in coasters??
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ampguy
Veteran
clarification
clarification
There are two independent things being mentioned here.
1 is the vertical line that shows up in M8 images, usually at high ISOs and when underexposed.
2nd is where your LCD is showing a line of dead pixels, but output to file doesn't show.
Do you have the first issue, or the 2nd issue or both?
Did you send sample results to Leica of the problem(s)?
clarification
There are two independent things being mentioned here.
1 is the vertical line that shows up in M8 images, usually at high ISOs and when underexposed.
2nd is where your LCD is showing a line of dead pixels, but output to file doesn't show.
Do you have the first issue, or the 2nd issue or both?
Did you send sample results to Leica of the problem(s)?
Olsen
Well-known
Ampguy,
I have been participating - since the very beginning of this Red Line Problem occurred, at several Leica forums, like the L-camera-forum (as you can see from the discussions on the Red Line Issue), foto.no etc. The Norwegian Leica community is rather small and easy to oversee. Besides Norwegian Leica M8 owners I also know - from internet contact, users in Finland, Sweden and Denmark. The same thing there.
Regarding 'supplementary warranties'...
Most European consumers are protected 'by law'. They don't need a warranty.
They can just tear apart the 'warranty document' from their camera producer, as long as they have the receipt and can show to a 'product malfunction' within certain generous time limits (many countries; two years or even longer). For the Red Line Problem, which is of such volume & magnitude systematically through the product serial production, it rests a special responsibility on the producer to correct it. Leica know this.
I have been participating - since the very beginning of this Red Line Problem occurred, at several Leica forums, like the L-camera-forum (as you can see from the discussions on the Red Line Issue), foto.no etc. The Norwegian Leica community is rather small and easy to oversee. Besides Norwegian Leica M8 owners I also know - from internet contact, users in Finland, Sweden and Denmark. The same thing there.
Regarding 'supplementary warranties'...
Most European consumers are protected 'by law'. They don't need a warranty.
They can just tear apart the 'warranty document' from their camera producer, as long as they have the receipt and can show to a 'product malfunction' within certain generous time limits (many countries; two years or even longer). For the Red Line Problem, which is of such volume & magnitude systematically through the product serial production, it rests a special responsibility on the producer to correct it. Leica know this.
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dcsang
Canadian & Not A Dentist
If we're talking only used gear, then yes, I would agree. That was unclear in your original post - to think that one would have to ensure that, brand new, from a dealer, it is the onus of the buyer to check out the serial number and hope that they don't get a faulty M8 is ridiculous.
Especially considering the cost involved.
I am not stating that one shouldn't be surprised IF they get a faulty brand new M8 because, errors/faults do occur with respect to production runs, however it shouldn't be the buyer's responsibility to make sure they have a good serial number.. it should be the manufacturers responsibility to fix the fault on brand new equipment.
Dave
filmfan
Well-known
It's an M8, of course you are going to have problems. I would send it back to where you had it "repaired" saying that they did not fix it, insist they finish the job that you originally paid for, and then sell it and buy a real camera.
ampguy
Veteran
Hi Dave, with a used M8, whether purchased from a private party, or a dealer like Popflash or Tamarkin (both have great reputations, but I don't think either actually take photos or check for detailed issues before selling/reselling used stuff), I think it's possible that the used M8 may have issues that need resolving at the factory.
Olsen, I understand that where you live can give you different product rights by law and in some cases have precedence over the factory warranty. However, I'm not aware of many in the US who have ended up paying for new sensors or line issues.
Jaapv and others have posted details of ranges where sensors generally need upgrading, and also m8 ranges where #'s may need circuit board resistor/cap changes to avoid a central vertical or horizontal line caused by an uneven output from the dual channel powered display. Some folks said they have verified these # ranges with Leica reps. I don't see a reason to not believe them.
But back to your statement that all M8's that have not been back to the factory, have the line issue, can you tell me if a factory rep from Leica can back up that statement? That would be interesting.
Olsen, I understand that where you live can give you different product rights by law and in some cases have precedence over the factory warranty. However, I'm not aware of many in the US who have ended up paying for new sensors or line issues.
Jaapv and others have posted details of ranges where sensors generally need upgrading, and also m8 ranges where #'s may need circuit board resistor/cap changes to avoid a central vertical or horizontal line caused by an uneven output from the dual channel powered display. Some folks said they have verified these # ranges with Leica reps. I don't see a reason to not believe them.
But back to your statement that all M8's that have not been back to the factory, have the line issue, can you tell me if a factory rep from Leica can back up that statement? That would be interesting.
Olsen
Well-known
None I know that have returned their M8s to Solms have been charged anything for the repair - possibly with the exception of transport cost. I was not even charged transport even though I bought my M8 in Singapore and handled the reject through the Norwegian dealership. I paid nothing. Nor do I know of any M8 owners here in Norway who have been charged anything by Leica.
So, Leica has been very generous and stood by their customers! Spread that word!
Again: I have been told a lot of stories about what Leica actually do to fix this Red Line. But I don't know for sure what it is. I don't think they have to change the sensor, but only 'remap it'. Whatever that is. I have written them e-mails, but they only answer me with polite general statements that 'we'll fix it' - stuff. They don't seem to want to tell.
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gilpen123
Gil
I guess any pandemic issues should have a recall program. Leica should initiate this if truly there are many problems as what the net has to say. I just got an M 8.2 still in the mail that has 11 months warranty (according to seller) on it but still I'm anxious and wishing I don't have the dreaded disease.