I saw the line most clearly in TIFF files viewed at 100%, as the line is only 1 pixel wide, hard to see at lower magnification. I suspect jpg compression may tend to obscure the line. My line was blue, not red, and not centered in the frame, but at 2762 pixels from the left, and full height. My M8 was a demo from PopFlash, and they were great about handling the matter with LeicaUSA at no charge except my shipping.
My other M8 does not show this line problem (yet?), nor does the M9... but which has two hot pixels.
My other M8 does not show this line problem (yet?), nor does the M9... but which has two hot pixels.
ampguy
Veteran
Hi Doug
Hi Doug
So the line you had/saw was different from Olsen's in that it wasn't red and didn't show on the LCD (a jpg) ??
I actually see horizontal lines in Gilpen's post, but it's hard to know if it's my monitor or an optical illusion, but when I scroll his JPG up and down, the lines are still there in the image, but certainly nothing that I'd obsess over, and hope Gilpen isn't.
Interesting stuff.
Hi Doug
So the line you had/saw was different from Olsen's in that it wasn't red and didn't show on the LCD (a jpg) ??
I actually see horizontal lines in Gilpen's post, but it's hard to know if it's my monitor or an optical illusion, but when I scroll his JPG up and down, the lines are still there in the image, but certainly nothing that I'd obsess over, and hope Gilpen isn't.
Interesting stuff.
Interesting indeed, Ted... Yes, blue, and about 2/3 over from the left edge, at ISO 640 and most obvious in dark/shadow areas of the pics. I hadn't noticed it until I started pixel-peeping after hearing of this issue. It did not show on the LCD, but then I seldom look at pics there and have never scaled that up for an expanded view. Some have had a horizontal banding problem too that I think was handled in firmware, but my recollection is hazy.
Olsen
Well-known
'The Line' can be blue or red and be placed just about anywhere in the sensor surface; it is the same symptom. Talked to a Norwegian Leica freak (a rare thing) last night. He 'knew' (supposedly) that the fix for this problem is to 'install a pixel remapping device'. No sensor needs changing. If this pixel remapping thing was hardware or software; he did not know. The reason why Leica won't tell or confirm what the problem is of juridical reasons. But still they put a lot of effort into fixing it - at no cost, or as little cost as possible for the user.
LeicaTom
Watch that step!
My M8 came back from Leica NJ two months ago WORSE than it was before it went out......I'm really disappointed in their repairs, (they turned around the camera in 8 DAYS! which was just great, but the camera is more a mess now than before) - they state a replaced sensor and 2.005 upgrade, the hot pixels all over the screen (more than 10) and all over the photos (worse condition then it was before) also sensor is disgusting, (full of dirt) nothing over f5.6 is usable without massive post production.
The camera starts up slower and writing seems to drag on longer than before, while under the 2.004 it worked way better and I didn't have as many problems as I have now.
Sudden death has happened now at least 6 times, I must wait a few minutes and then replace battery and the camera comes back, and this happens on a full charged brand new factory battery.
Nasty big wide greenish and blue lines across the photos as well.....
Sounds a mess, I can still take photos with it, but I'm really sad that a camera that cost so much new can have so many problems, I have lot's of warranty time left, the camera goes back to NJ on Jan 2nd and I want it sent BACK TO GERMANY, the repairs at the NJ werks don't cut it.....the personnel there are very nice and polite, but my issues are now doubled if not tripled, kinda sucks, but I'm going to wear them out and the warranty too, the factory should also pay for the postage back and forth - I'm going to complain about that as well.......
My advice is to stay away from M8's with the #3101XXX serial range, while this one once with some problems has even more now, I'm lucky I have a extended warranty on the camera and don't have to pay a cent for repairs, I'm totally not set on investing in a M9, if the modern Leica's all have issues this bad, I'll stick with shooting with my LTM's and go back to shooting film full-time and buy a 4/3's camera for fast digital work, the digital M Leica has been a sweet n' sour experience for me, with more sour then often
Tom
The camera starts up slower and writing seems to drag on longer than before, while under the 2.004 it worked way better and I didn't have as many problems as I have now.
Sudden death has happened now at least 6 times, I must wait a few minutes and then replace battery and the camera comes back, and this happens on a full charged brand new factory battery.
Nasty big wide greenish and blue lines across the photos as well.....
Sounds a mess, I can still take photos with it, but I'm really sad that a camera that cost so much new can have so many problems, I have lot's of warranty time left, the camera goes back to NJ on Jan 2nd and I want it sent BACK TO GERMANY, the repairs at the NJ werks don't cut it.....the personnel there are very nice and polite, but my issues are now doubled if not tripled, kinda sucks, but I'm going to wear them out and the warranty too, the factory should also pay for the postage back and forth - I'm going to complain about that as well.......
My advice is to stay away from M8's with the #3101XXX serial range, while this one once with some problems has even more now, I'm lucky I have a extended warranty on the camera and don't have to pay a cent for repairs, I'm totally not set on investing in a M9, if the modern Leica's all have issues this bad, I'll stick with shooting with my LTM's and go back to shooting film full-time and buy a 4/3's camera for fast digital work, the digital M Leica has been a sweet n' sour experience for me, with more sour then often
Tom
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Olsen
Well-known
Tom,
A replacement of the sensor won't help much of the Red Line Problem. You have to have a 'pixel remap device' installed. I hardly believe that Leica NJ has the tools nor the knowledge to do that (nor a replacement of the sensor, for that matter). - But I could be wrong.
All the dealers here in Europe send their rejected M8s to Leica Solms.
I had my M8 fixed at Leica Solms, sent through the local dealer here in Norway - despite that I had bought the M8 in Singapore, - free of charge!
I paid 'nothing'.
The process took 'well a month'. - This was when the Red Line Fix was at it's busiest. Since then my M8 has performed flawless. - Well, as 'flawless' as the M8 is - with all the filter hassle, slow processing time etc. - I only shoot RAW. The M8 can only handle that in a reasonable time. It is important to have absolutely fresh batteries. They do not last more than 'well a year'.
A replacement of the sensor won't help much of the Red Line Problem. You have to have a 'pixel remap device' installed. I hardly believe that Leica NJ has the tools nor the knowledge to do that (nor a replacement of the sensor, for that matter). - But I could be wrong.
All the dealers here in Europe send their rejected M8s to Leica Solms.
I had my M8 fixed at Leica Solms, sent through the local dealer here in Norway - despite that I had bought the M8 in Singapore, - free of charge!
I paid 'nothing'.
The process took 'well a month'. - This was when the Red Line Fix was at it's busiest. Since then my M8 has performed flawless. - Well, as 'flawless' as the M8 is - with all the filter hassle, slow processing time etc. - I only shoot RAW. The M8 can only handle that in a reasonable time. It is important to have absolutely fresh batteries. They do not last more than 'well a year'.
LeicaTom
Watch that step!
Thanks Olsen!
It's going to be a pain in the *ss not having the M8 for at least 2 months into the new year, but I'm sending it back to NJ and I want it to go back to the factory this time.....
Tom
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Well, a dirty sensor isMy M8 came back from Leica NJ two months ago WORSE than it was before it went out......I'm really disappointed in their repairs, (they turned around the camera in 8 DAYS! which was just great, but the camera is more a mess now than before) - they state a replaced sensor and 2.005 upgrade, the hot pixels all over the screen (more than 10) and all over the photos (worse condition then it was before) also sensor is disgusting, (full of dirt) nothing over f5.6 is usable without massive post production.
The camera starts up slower and writing seems to drag on longer than before, while under the 2.004 it worked way better and I didn't have as many problems as I have now.
Sudden death has happened now at least 6 times, I must wait a few minutes and then replace battery and the camera comes back, and this happens on a full charged brand new factory battery.
Nasty big wide greenish and blue lines across the photos as well.....
Sounds a mess, I can still take photos with it, but I'm really sad that a camera that cost so much new can have so many problems, I have lot's of warranty time left, the camera goes back to NJ on Jan 2nd and I want it sent BACK TO GERMANY, the repairs at the NJ werks don't cut it.....the personnel there are very nice and polite, but my issues are now doubled if not tripled, kinda sucks, but I'm going to wear them out and the warranty too, the factory should also pay for the postage back and forth - I'm going to complain about that as well.......
My advice is to stay away from M8's with the #3101XXX serial range, while this one once with some problems has even more now, I'm lucky I have a extended warranty on the camera and don't have to pay a cent for repairs, I'm totally not set on investing in a M9, if the modern Leica's all have issues this bad, I'll stick with shooting with my LTM's and go back to shooting film full-time and buy a 4/3's camera for fast digital work, the digital M Leica has been a sweet n' sour experience for me, with more sour then often
Tom
basically the responsibility of the owner, though it would have been nice to send it back clean. Anyway, I have 3101100 and it has been performing flawlessly since the day of the sensor upgrade
MCTuomey
Veteran
Jaap, Tom indicates that Leica-NJ stated the sensor was replaced. How can a newly installed sensor's cleanliness be the responsibility of the owner?
Leica's service infra-structure does seem inadequate to support the demands of digital cameras. The performance variation is troubling: one owner reports excellent post-repair operation; the next reports a disaster. If you believe like I do that the Leica M digitals are more prone to need service visits than other, more mature dSLR gear, this is especially discouraging. I will rue the day when my M8 needs to visit Leica service ... and it's only a matter of time. I've never owned a digi camera for any length of time that didn't need a service call.
Leica's service infra-structure does seem inadequate to support the demands of digital cameras. The performance variation is troubling: one owner reports excellent post-repair operation; the next reports a disaster. If you believe like I do that the Leica M digitals are more prone to need service visits than other, more mature dSLR gear, this is especially discouraging. I will rue the day when my M8 needs to visit Leica service ... and it's only a matter of time. I've never owned a digi camera for any length of time that didn't need a service call.
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LeicaTom
Watch that step!
The camera came back from Leica with a nasty/dirty sensor....I didn't as much snap a shot and it was still messed up at anything over f5.6
I think the whole sensor replacement deal in less than 7 days is BS, but since the company is responsible for all warranty repairs, they will get it back.
If it comes back messed up again, I'm switching to digital 4/3 rd's and shooting all 50mm looks on REAL FILM......
Tom
And how likely is a brand new sensor to be dirty? Might it NOT be a new sensor?
FWIW, my M8 that had the blue vertical line problem, and was successfully and nicely serviced N/C by Leica NJ is #3101997...
Dan States
Established
So the onus is on the BUYER and not the MAKER of the product?
I'd hate to think if that was the case with other manufacture defects what would happen with automobile makers... "Oh.... too bad your Ford Pinto exploded when you got hit in the rear by a pick up truck, mine works fine, you just need to get a good serial numbered Pinto.."
Dave
Well, that is kind of how it is actually...However I seriously doubt we can use Leica's wacky S/N system as a guide. It's the luck of the draw.
jlindstrom
Established
I had the purple line problem in mine as well. I bought the M8 from a reputable Leica dealer 2nd hand. It was fixed for free by Leica Solms.
I asked for the repair related documents from them and it showed no replacement parts, but under labour: ccd pixel fault. Thus I'd say many of these problems will be fixed by pixel remapping on the ccd.
The document also very clearly statednit was warranty issue and it would have otherwise cost ~320€.
Mine is #3197183
I was very happy with their work since there hasn't been any problems since. They also did a complementary cla for the whole camera (including rf adjustment) and gave the whole camera a 1 year factory warranty. And yes, they explicitly stated it's for the whole camera.
Of course it would be great to have a 100% working device from the start, but even more important than that is how problems are dealth with when they arise.
After all this, I'm a very satisfied Leica customer and can only hope others will get similar treatment
//Juha
I asked for the repair related documents from them and it showed no replacement parts, but under labour: ccd pixel fault. Thus I'd say many of these problems will be fixed by pixel remapping on the ccd.
The document also very clearly statednit was warranty issue and it would have otherwise cost ~320€.
Mine is #3197183
I was very happy with their work since there hasn't been any problems since. They also did a complementary cla for the whole camera (including rf adjustment) and gave the whole camera a 1 year factory warranty. And yes, they explicitly stated it's for the whole camera.
Of course it would be great to have a 100% working device from the start, but even more important than that is how problems are dealth with when they arise.
After all this, I'm a very satisfied Leica customer and can only hope others will get similar treatment
//Juha
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