dabick42
Well-known
No offense to anybody, but I find all this talk of camera prices just a tad depressing.
It sounds like a bunch of angst-ridden stockmarket traders discussing share prices in the Depression era !
Do people on this forum really lie awake at night worrying about what their camera/gear will be worth in the morning, or next month, or should they have sold it 6 months ago when prices were higher ?
Seems very sad to me. But what do I know, I haven't sold a camera in 30-odd years and I'm too busy trying to wear out the several dozen I presently own to waste time worrying about what they're worth.... (!)
It sounds like a bunch of angst-ridden stockmarket traders discussing share prices in the Depression era !
Do people on this forum really lie awake at night worrying about what their camera/gear will be worth in the morning, or next month, or should they have sold it 6 months ago when prices were higher ?
Seems very sad to me. But what do I know, I haven't sold a camera in 30-odd years and I'm too busy trying to wear out the several dozen I presently own to waste time worrying about what they're worth.... (!)
IEDEI
Well-known
it's just a topic....if you don't like it...why are you reading it?
James24
Well-known
This reveals that you are truly fortunate. Many of us have to keep selling cameras (and hence are deeply concerned with their second hand values) in order to buy newer ones.
gdi
Veteran
I' m not exaggerating and what I say is true; because you don't accept it doesn't make it false.
I never said that most sell for the low price, or that it was the average price. I clearly explained my rationale, which cannot be questioned, with honesty. It is unfortunate that you didn't seem to read my post (or try to understand it) before replying. Take a look at the classifieds at RFF- there is a very nice one with several extras that was posted over a month ago and hasn't sold; it has an $1800 price. Look here, getdpi, fm and you see several more cases.
The patient get the best deal, the impatient do not - fact even if you cannot accept it.
Several dozen? Sounds like you don't care about selling because you are a hoarder!
I'm interested in the topic because I'm in the market for a M9. It makes sense then right?
IEDEI
Well-known
Several dozen? Sounds like you don't care about selling because you are a hoarder!
several dozen could be anywhere between 36 and 144 (or more) cameras!!! LOL
dabick42
Well-known
@ James24 - - -
Fortunate ? No, just puzzled as to why some people feel compelled to change their cameras as often as their underwear.
Do you lose money every time you sell and buy and sell and buy ?
Did you wear your last camera out ?
In what way is your new camera better than your old camera ?
More reliable ? How would you know, you didn't keep it long enough !
Better pictures ? What does ''better'' mean ?
More sex appeal and ''street cred'' ? Why not, if that's important to you...
So many questions, so little understanding of the constant need for change...
Fortunate ? No, just puzzled as to why some people feel compelled to change their cameras as often as their underwear.
Do you lose money every time you sell and buy and sell and buy ?
Did you wear your last camera out ?
In what way is your new camera better than your old camera ?
More reliable ? How would you know, you didn't keep it long enough !
Better pictures ? What does ''better'' mean ?
More sex appeal and ''street cred'' ? Why not, if that's important to you...
So many questions, so little understanding of the constant need for change...
NicoM
Well-known
Like I said in a previous post, I'd never ever use eBay to determine the going rate of Leica given the number of cameras that are selling for outrageous prices. Just as there are people that sell them for too low, there are people who will buy for a high price.
In my opinion, if there are ENOUGH M8s that are going for $1500-1600 (which multiple people have given example of), why even bother looking at the ones selling for $1800-1900? At this point point in time, it doesn't make sense to me why someone would consider the M8s in the $1800-1900 price range unless they come with extras/warranty and such, or you need one immediately.
IEDEI
Well-known
that makes NO sense. so you won't use Ebay to determine the average price (which is actually quite accurate...and something i calculated for you), however you will gladly use it to determine the 'low' prices? i have seen no examples of $1500 M8s anywhere aside from Ebay.....zilch. You can't have it both ways.
NicoM
Well-known
I said not use eBays "average price" to determine what the M8 should be sold for. I didn't say not to buy from eBay. I'd buy from eBay.
What I said was to argue your "average price" calculations. In your post, you equated what you got as "average price" to be the same as what you considered to be the going rate of the M8. If you average out what is on eBay, you probably DO get the figure that you stated, but that takes into account the M8s that are selling for higher. I wouldn't include the higher prices to determine the "going rate" when, like I also said earlier, there are ENOUGH M8s selling in the $1500-1600 price range. I'm sure you'd agree if you were still in the market to buy one today.
James24
Well-known
Well, we're all different.
I like to change cameras. I have worn some out/broken them but my main motivation for getting a newer one is that I enjoy doing so. It's a part of my hobby. Taking pictures is another part.
Some people buy new cars and change them every year. Some buy one every 10 years and run it into the ground. I don't suppose cameras buyers are any different. And there's room for us all.
dabick42
Well-known
@ James24 - - -
You're right - we're all different !
This forum would be bloody boring if we all held the same opinions on everything photographic.
FWIW, I drive an 18-year old car that I've had 10 years and I can't wear that bugger out, either, even after 312,000 miles....
You're right - we're all different !
This forum would be bloody boring if we all held the same opinions on everything photographic.
FWIW, I drive an 18-year old car that I've had 10 years and I can't wear that bugger out, either, even after 312,000 miles....
Clark.EE
Well-known
Is Leica glass appreciating? or depreciating at the moment?
Is anyone looking at that?
Every one says it is an investment!
Is that true at the moment? I suspect not, long term/very long term maybe?
New Summicron 50/2 in 2007 was?
& now?
Anyone care?
Is anyone looking at that?
Every one says it is an investment!
Is that true at the moment? I suspect not, long term/very long term maybe?
New Summicron 50/2 in 2007 was?
& now?
Anyone care?
Nescio
Well-known
When Lady Crisis starts knocking on my door,
I appreciate my Leica lenses even more.
Sold mothers gold teeth and my fathers lore,
and love my Leica lenses more and more.
Rings the usher, friend or foe,
No want no cake, just wants the dough.
Don't be rude, just smile, I say,
And took a picture with a nice bokeh,
C'mon, give me all you got,
Your TV, fridge and all the lot.
You can have it all, and even more,
All but my lenses mine of yore.
Nescio
IEDEI
Well-known
completely disagree. I have been shopping them for a friend....almost impossible to find them for $1500. the only examples have been EBay....and even those are VERY rare.
NicoM
Well-known
You haven't been looking hard enough then, because they're there. The M8s sold on eBay that were shared in a previous post were sold with only 1-3 bids. Not competitive at all. They're there.
EDIT: Seeing as this back and fourth discusion of ours is not leading to anything useful, I say that we just end it right here.
Nescio
Well-known
There's no point in asking, you'll get no reply
Oh just remember I don't decide
I got no reason it's all too much
You'll always find us out to lunch
Sex Pistols dixit
Nescio
Oh just remember I don't decide
I got no reason it's all too much
You'll always find us out to lunch
Sex Pistols dixit
Nescio
IEDEI
Well-known
You haven't been looking hard enough then, because they're there. The M8s sold on eBay that were shared in a previous post were sold with only 1-3 bids. Not competitive at all. They're there.
EDIT: Seeing as this back and fourth discusion of ours is not leading to anything useful, I say that we just end it right here.
links? nobody has posted any aside from the 3 auctions as discussed before. for every one that sold with 1 buyer on the cheap, there are MANY with lots of bids that sold for $2k. The single bid auctions are likely 'buy it now' listings.
This discussion has no point, however I find that forums are often inundated with misinformation, as witnessed in the 'fatal' LCD issues of the M8 previously and now for pricing of cameras.
gdi
Veteran
Of course you are wrong about the low priced M8s being all Buy It Nows. Looking at the ones JSRocket posted quickly shows that all but one were straight auctions as show below. The one that was Buy It Now was from a dealer. (it did not have the charger, but still an OK deal after adding one for less than $100).
There are also others that sold in that price range - two were $1651 each (one Black -4 bids, one Chrome-6 bids) Plus there are more that topped out, but didn't meet reserve, at $1635/22 Bids and $1675/28 Bids, both a little high of course. In fact just as I was typing this I see an M8 sold for $1642 after 9 bids - and that was in the UK! I am not going to post links, but you should be able to figure out how to find these and determine whether they are Buy It Now or not by yourself.
When you ask for links at other sites, I assume you are thinking that items for sale always sell at the listed price. Many times that is just not true, most people post an optimistic price and are willing to go down from there. If you have a camera advertised for weeks at $1800 and someone offers you a done deal at $1600, you will likely be willing to take it - $200 isn't much difference, only about 11%. (I recently bought a camera for $2700 that was advertised intially for $3200 or so.) You should be able to do searches of forums to see M8s that sit unsold for weeks at $1800 and more - these will likely be sold eventually for hundreds less. You don't go to the car dealership and just pay the sticker price do you?
The bottom line is - given the easily verified evidence, it is silly to think that M8s can't be had for $1500-1600 and to assume that average eBay prices set the market price of private sales. Like I said before, some will over pay, and some will get a good deal. I know that for some people it can hurt to think the camera they bought several months ago could be bought now for hundreds less. That is just way it works sometimes; I try not to think much about the X-Pro1 I bought for around $1500 a few months ago that I could buy now for $1000-1100, but I don't argue with people about the fact that I couldn't get my money back!
Here are the facts about the JSRocket's links.:
$1216: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Leica-M8-bod...item337df02e7b - Buy It Now, sold by a well known dealer
$1515: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Leica-M8-10-...item4abef1ff59 - NOT a Buy It Now - this drew a single bid
$1615: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Unique-Leica...item416e002145 - NOT a Buy It Now - this drew three bids
$1640: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Leica-M8-bod...item3f1f482ea3 - NOT a Buy It Now - this drew two bids
There are also others that sold in that price range - two were $1651 each (one Black -4 bids, one Chrome-6 bids) Plus there are more that topped out, but didn't meet reserve, at $1635/22 Bids and $1675/28 Bids, both a little high of course. In fact just as I was typing this I see an M8 sold for $1642 after 9 bids - and that was in the UK! I am not going to post links, but you should be able to figure out how to find these and determine whether they are Buy It Now or not by yourself.
When you ask for links at other sites, I assume you are thinking that items for sale always sell at the listed price. Many times that is just not true, most people post an optimistic price and are willing to go down from there. If you have a camera advertised for weeks at $1800 and someone offers you a done deal at $1600, you will likely be willing to take it - $200 isn't much difference, only about 11%. (I recently bought a camera for $2700 that was advertised intially for $3200 or so.) You should be able to do searches of forums to see M8s that sit unsold for weeks at $1800 and more - these will likely be sold eventually for hundreds less. You don't go to the car dealership and just pay the sticker price do you?
The bottom line is - given the easily verified evidence, it is silly to think that M8s can't be had for $1500-1600 and to assume that average eBay prices set the market price of private sales. Like I said before, some will over pay, and some will get a good deal. I know that for some people it can hurt to think the camera they bought several months ago could be bought now for hundreds less. That is just way it works sometimes; I try not to think much about the X-Pro1 I bought for around $1500 a few months ago that I could buy now for $1000-1100, but I don't argue with people about the fact that I couldn't get my money back!
Here are the facts about the JSRocket's links.:
$1216: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Leica-M8-bod...item337df02e7b - Buy It Now, sold by a well known dealer
$1515: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Leica-M8-10-...item4abef1ff59 - NOT a Buy It Now - this drew a single bid
$1615: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Unique-Leica...item416e002145 - NOT a Buy It Now - this drew three bids
$1640: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Leica-M8-bod...item3f1f482ea3 - NOT a Buy It Now - this drew two bids
I thought we already determined that both of you are correct?