jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
This forum is really running behind times. I'll copy paste my summary of the remarks of Stefan Daniel regarding the future of the M camera:
1: There will be a future M
2. There are indications there is a solution for the IR filters, but that is still being worked on by the Leica engineers.
3. The future M will be full format
4. The future M will be announced after the production and delivery of the S2 has been implemented,"be it an M9 or M8.3" Currently the S2 is taking up resources that cannot be diverted to other projects
5. The S2 is running on time and the delivery will be as announced before, i.e September
6. The R-solution will be announced after the M camera is implemented, probably (interpretation!) not in 2010
The impression Stefan Daniel gave is that the work on the M9 is progressing well.
I think it might well be announced quite some time before the Fotokina, although that would be the natural moment to do the formal introduction.
In a later conversation I tackled Stefan on the view/rangefinder.
Leica has looked into the accuracy of the optical rangefinder as it is now, as they are obviously aware that the M8 is at the performance limit of the system, as Mark has often pointed out.
Stefan told me that tests by Leica engineers have proved that, with the different magnification factor, the classic optical finder is better on full format than on the M8.
To me that implies that the M9 will have an M7 style optical rangefinder and effectively kills all speculation on the introduction of electronic gadgetry into the system. It may even be a hint as to the form factor of the camera
1: There will be a future M
2. There are indications there is a solution for the IR filters, but that is still being worked on by the Leica engineers.
3. The future M will be full format
4. The future M will be announced after the production and delivery of the S2 has been implemented,"be it an M9 or M8.3" Currently the S2 is taking up resources that cannot be diverted to other projects
5. The S2 is running on time and the delivery will be as announced before, i.e September
6. The R-solution will be announced after the M camera is implemented, probably (interpretation!) not in 2010
The impression Stefan Daniel gave is that the work on the M9 is progressing well.
I think it might well be announced quite some time before the Fotokina, although that would be the natural moment to do the formal introduction.
In a later conversation I tackled Stefan on the view/rangefinder.
Leica has looked into the accuracy of the optical rangefinder as it is now, as they are obviously aware that the M8 is at the performance limit of the system, as Mark has often pointed out.
Stefan told me that tests by Leica engineers have proved that, with the different magnification factor, the classic optical finder is better on full format than on the M8.
To me that implies that the M9 will have an M7 style optical rangefinder and effectively kills all speculation on the introduction of electronic gadgetry into the system. It may even be a hint as to the form factor of the camera
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Pickett Wilson
Veteran
Well, that's a different interpretation.
It sounded to me like Leica has stopped R&D for the next year or so.
It sounded to me like Leica has stopped R&D for the next year or so.
Florian1234
it's just hide and seek
Jaap, thanks for getting this information from there. Let's see if this forum will get another more postings regarding the future digital M cameras and the other developments like over at the LUF. 
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Were you there? We must have met then. No, Stefan said that currently all resources were geared to pushing out the S2, and then would be diverted to getting the M series running and then after that the solution for the R would be tackled..
Pickett Wilson
Veteran
No, not there. Just following the posts of others who were. So an M9 in 2010 then?
aizan
Veteran
sounds good. they seem to be on schedule for the expected september 2010 release.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
He did not commit himself, but I would be extremely disappointed if the FK went by without the introduction of the M9, or alternatively some kind of M8.3 during the year and definite information on the M9 in October.
Ben Z
Veteran
Good news about the going forward of the M line. Glad they are trying to work out the IR filter thing (although it would really be awful if they didn't then include firmware for cyan drift correction for those people who will still be shooting an M8 alongside the M9 and not want to have to take the IR filters off when switching a lens from one body to the other :bang Also glad it will be full-frame, if for nothing more than to quell the whining
The LHSA is planning to hold their 2010 annual meeting in Weztlar in time for Photokina, so I hope to see the [new] grail in person, as I did the M8 back in '06. However that time I only waited 8 months and paid retail for a new one, but as satisfied as I am with my [upgraded] M8, this time I'll wait for a demo/refurb like I normally do with digital cameras.
I do hope the S2 is a sales success, especially if the fate of the M line (and maybe the company itself) hangs in the balance. I had a chance to hold an S2 dummy, and though it was hollow and therefore much lighter than the real thing will be, it was ergonomically very nice (unlike the R8 I used to have, which was not that wonderful unless the motor drive or DMR were attached), and even moreso when considering it's halfway to medium-format sensor size.
The S2's lenses that I handled were real, not dummies, and though I have faith that the faithful R lovers will make the paradigm shift seamlessly, the lenses do not have the same heft or feel as R lenses. The tubes are made of plastic, and these are AF lenses with full-time MF, like Canon's USM lenses, so the focus damping is very different from lubed brass MF helicoids. It's similar to comparing the Fuji-made Hasselblad H-series lenses to the C/CF-series.
Also glad it will be full-frame, if for nothing more than to quell the whining The LHSA is planning to hold their 2010 annual meeting in Weztlar in time for Photokina, so I hope to see the [new] grail in person, as I did the M8 back in '06. However that time I only waited 8 months and paid retail for a new one, but as satisfied as I am with my [upgraded] M8, this time I'll wait for a demo/refurb like I normally do with digital cameras.
I do hope the S2 is a sales success, especially if the fate of the M line (and maybe the company itself) hangs in the balance. I had a chance to hold an S2 dummy, and though it was hollow and therefore much lighter than the real thing will be, it was ergonomically very nice (unlike the R8 I used to have, which was not that wonderful unless the motor drive or DMR were attached), and even moreso when considering it's halfway to medium-format sensor size.
The S2's lenses that I handled were real, not dummies, and though I have faith that the faithful R lovers will make the paradigm shift seamlessly, the lenses do not have the same heft or feel as R lenses. The tubes are made of plastic, and these are AF lenses with full-time MF, like Canon's USM lenses, so the focus damping is very different from lubed brass MF helicoids. It's similar to comparing the Fuji-made Hasselblad H-series lenses to the C/CF-series.
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Jonas
Established
I heard rumors of future M at 10K$. If that is the case, I couldnt care one bit if its FF or not cause im not buying anyway. A digital M is simply not worth that kind of cash IMO. No one notices you more with a 5DmkII+35 f:2 anyway so the discrete factor of an M isnt there... I love the M cameras and lenses, dont get me wrong, but a digital M will never be worth 10K in my book.
monochromejrnl
Well-known
This seems incompatible with your assertion that the development of the M9 is going well. If all resources are being deployed to complete and deploy the S2 on schedule, then would it not be safe to conclude that the M9's development is currently on hold?
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
No, it is not. For instance, rangefinder specialists are not much use for the S2, and the sensor story of the S2 has been fixed months ago. The M9 is coming behind the S2 in development, and of course Leica is able to divert resources not needed any more. But they will not push to jump the queu.
Tuolumne
Veteran
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
There is NOTHING fixed on the price yet. It is quite possible that it will come in on the level of the M8.2 and the M8.2 will remain on the books at a lower price as an entry level camera. But nothing is even faintly known about that.
Tuolumne
Veteran
The S2 -- I could never figure that one out. Is there really a market for that with such a wide choice of MF digital cameras? Oh well, this is not the thread for that discussion.
/T
Paddy C
Unused film collector
I suppose this is good news for some.
I would love a digital rangefinder (Zeiss do you hear me) but I can't even afford/justify the existing digital M. One can only imagine what a full-frame digital M will cost given that the M8.2 retails for $6K.
I would love a digital rangefinder (Zeiss do you hear me) but I can't even afford/justify the existing digital M. One can only imagine what a full-frame digital M will cost given that the M8.2 retails for $6K.
DougFord
on the good foot
[FONT="]The big news in these remarks is that the short register issue has been solved. Or at least close to being worked out, unless it’s just wishful thinking, a marketing ploy to keep the full frame lenses moving out the door. [/FONT]
[FONT="]Solving the short register issue and then restricting this technology to a traditional RF camera seems a bit short sighted. Why wouldn’t they develop a new, small FF hybrid camera and a set of compact AF lenses to establish a larger nich market?[/FONT]
[FONT="]Nikon and Canon have too much vested in their large FF cameras and lenses to undercut themselves with a small light weight FF hybrid.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Perhaps a company like Samsung, after the NX release, will develop a FF hybrid.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Think of a camera, slightly larger than the Oly EP1 with a FF sensor. [/FONT]
[FONT="]How many people are married to the traditional RF design?[/FONT]
[FONT="]Solving the short register issue and then restricting this technology to a traditional RF camera seems a bit short sighted. Why wouldn’t they develop a new, small FF hybrid camera and a set of compact AF lenses to establish a larger nich market?[/FONT]
[FONT="]Nikon and Canon have too much vested in their large FF cameras and lenses to undercut themselves with a small light weight FF hybrid.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Perhaps a company like Samsung, after the NX release, will develop a FF hybrid.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Think of a camera, slightly larger than the Oly EP1 with a FF sensor. [/FONT]
[FONT="]How many people are married to the traditional RF design?[/FONT]
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Ummm..Zeiss is in deep enough water right now, even wihout a DRF adventure....
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Just about 95% of their M customer base.....
Bill58
Native Texan
The M9 will cause give-away prices on used M8s.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
I'm afraid that if my M8 completely died a stretch to a new M8.2 or the predicted M9 would be out of the question ... an M8.2 is a $7500.00 AUD camera here now so a full frame M9 is a scary thought dollar wise.
With internet talk (more substantiated now) of the future M being definitely full frame and IR sorted what's my M8 worth as we type ... $2000.00 US if I'm lucky I'd suspect? The temptation to move to a D700 sooner rather than later is starting to make sense because as I said an M9 will be out of my league finacially so maybe better to accept the inevitable now rather than later when my M8 may be worth considerably less.
I'd really miss using a digital rangefinder for the odd low light paid gig I get but this merry go round is starting to travel a little fast for me and I know a current generation full frame DSLR will do what I need!
With internet talk (more substantiated now) of the future M being definitely full frame and IR sorted what's my M8 worth as we type ... $2000.00 US if I'm lucky I'd suspect? The temptation to move to a D700 sooner rather than later is starting to make sense because as I said an M9 will be out of my league finacially so maybe better to accept the inevitable now rather than later when my M8 may be worth considerably less.
I'd really miss using a digital rangefinder for the odd low light paid gig I get but this merry go round is starting to travel a little fast for me and I know a current generation full frame DSLR will do what I need!