M9 M9 M9 M9 M9

[Pickett Wilson]

Wonder if they will resort to heavy software correction to get the FF to work?

 

[tbarker13]

I'm afraid that if my M8 completely died a stretch to a new M8.2 or the predicted M9 would be out of the question ... an M8.2 is a $7500.00 AUD camera here now so a full frame M9 is a scary thought dollar wise.

With internet talk (more substantiated now) of the future M being definitely full frame and IR sorted what's my M8 worth as we type ... $2000.00 US if I'm lucky I'd suspect? The temptation to move to a D700 sooner rather than later is starting to make sense because as I said an M9 will be out of my league finacially so maybe better to accept the inevitable now rather than later when my M8 may be worth considerably less.

I'd really miss using a digital rangefinder for the odd low light paid gig I get but this merry go round is starting to travel a little fast for me and I know a current generation full frame DSLR will do what I need! 🙁

Isn't that the depressing thing about the digital age? Today we are using M2s and M3s that were built 40 or 50 years ago. Can you imagine anyone using an M8, D200 or any of today's digital cameras 40 or more years down the road?

 

[DougFord]

Just about 95% of their M customer base.....

[FONT=&quot]Therein lies the problem. Why tie yourself to an ever shrinking market. There’s a willingness for rf users to venture into other form factors, witness the talk of dSLRs or hybrid digital cameras (oly ep1, Samsung nx etc) here on RFF. Many here own non-rangefinder cameras as well, and even use them more often than their RF cameras, they’re not married to the traditional rf design. Restricting this technology to the traditional rf design makes little sense. Certainly throw the traditionalist a bone and produce a FFM9, but time marches on. The S2 symbolizes a new design philosophy for Leica, a FF hybrid would continue that approach in an attempt to define and lead, a new niche market. [/FONT]

 

[jke]

Isn't that the depressing thing about the digital age? Today we are using M2s and M3s that were built 40 or 50 years ago. Can you imagine anyone using an M8, D200 or any of today's digital cameras 40 or years down the road?

This would be, I think, the primary conundrum that faces Leica, whose products have been sold on the basis of their extended durability. A digital, because the life of the technology is significantly shorter than the lifetime of the mechanical aspects, doesn't necessarily need to be as durable as an M2. It may need to be durable enough to withstand the demands of professional use, if it is indeed a professional tool, but it doesn't need to last 40 or 50 years because the technology inside will only last 5 at most. But durability is one of the keystones of Leica sales, so creating a camera that would allow them to offer timely upgrades in keeping with changes in technology ala Nikon & Canon would inevitably affect that keystone and thus the company philosophy.

In other words, put a Leica M mount on Panasonic G1 technology stuffed into a rectangular body & you'd sell a stack of them. Plus you could upgrade to better faster more beautiful technology every 2 - 3 years with a G2, G3, G4... without your customer base having to swallow a $4, 5, 6, 10,000 price tag.

But you wouldn't necessarily be the same company either.

I'm glad I am not trying to run that company.

 

[jaap]

Yeah, I want to hear that too.

I'm also very curious ! On second thoughts I,m not Seeing the one who wrote it

 

[Kevin]

This is really great news for wedding photographers like myself who have a substantial investment in fast m-mount wide angle lenses.

 

[jaapv]

I agree. Carl Zeiss is a very profitable company owned by a trust that invests in --- Carl Zeiss. To what I see, Carl Zeiss and Cosina comes out winners even on the M8 introduction. How many ZM lenses are sold for every M8? Quite a few. While Leica has suffered rejects on large portions of their M8, with problems ranging from red lines to dead cameras, Zeiss/Cosina has just pumped out lenses. And profit. To what I know.

I was on the LUF meet in Solms. I saw a few hundred Leica M lenses in use, two CV and three Zeiss.....

 

[Keith]

I was on the LUF meet in Solms. I saw a few hundred Leica M lenses in use, two CV and three Zeiss.....

I don't see how a bunch of gathered self confessed Leica zealots in Solms is any indication of Zeiss or Cosina usage amongst the masses.

I'm not knocking them but I would expect that bunch to mainly have Leica glass on their cameras! 😀

 

[jky]

With internet talk (more substantiated now) of the future M being definitely full frame and IR sorted what's my M8 worth as we type ... $2000.00 US if I'm lucky I'd suspect? The temptation to move to a D700 sooner rather than later is starting to make sense because as I said an M9 will be out of my league finacially so maybe better to accept the inevitable now rather than later when my M8 may be worth considerably less.

I'd really miss using a digital rangefinder for the odd low light paid gig I get but this merry go round is starting to travel a little fast for me and I know a current generation full frame DSLR will do what I need! 🙁

...ah Keith... hence my recent purchase of a D700... pairs nicely with a Nikkor 35mm f2. You have to see the ISO 6400 files!

 

[Socke]

Yeah, I want to hear that too.

On Tuesday they adjourned a 2,1% pay rise scheduled for May 2009 to March 2010 and the employees relinquish some 75% from their vacation and Christmas bonuses. Fixed term employment contracts won't be prolonged, older employees close to retirement will be moved to part time contracts and parts of the concern will be on short-time. All in all Zeiss wants to save 120 million in payments this year.

Sounds very healthy, doesn't it?

 

[Socke]

I was on the LUF meet in Solms. I saw a few hundred Leica M lenses in use, two CV and three Zeiss.....

If the LUF is like a Porsche club, I wouldn't expect anything else 🙂

 

[jaapv]

Wel, I saw four Nikons, more than the Zeiss and CV sightings 😉

 

[dacaccia]

To what I see, Carl Zeiss and Cosina comes out winners even on the M8 introduction. How many ZM lenses are sold for every M8? Quite a few. While Leica has suffered rejects on large portions of their M8, with problems ranging from red lines to dead cameras, Zeiss/Cosina has just pumped out lenses. And profit. To what I know.

I do not see that. Zeiss produces lenses - Leica produces M and lenses. As far as I understand, they are very successful in both. M8 is their locomotive, together with crons and luxes (but less successfull are the summarits, I heard). And D-Lux 4, but this is another chapter. 😉 I spoke to more than one main dealer confirming this.

 

[Richard Marks]

M8 sales

M8 sales

Well my local dealer is currently one of the highest selling Leica dealers in the UK. A lot of their sales are currently to other European countries due to our very weak currency. They have never had it so good! What is actually selling thouhg is M8's and hardly any 8.2's. The other thing is all the second hand gear has been mopped up. The £500 off deal is now being extended to the end of June and this makes an M8 £2,300. I still think if leica had introduced an M8 around this price initially even if making little on the body they would have made it back in lens and accessories sales in no time.

Basically enjoy your M8. Even if you start lusting for an M9 there will be nay sayers waiting for the M10. Im looking back on 3 years of brilliant images. If and when something better comes along im in but certainly not loosing any sleep over it.

Richard

 

[Svitantti]

I know there are people who say "OMG I cant believe my eyes, a VC lens is actually good" when comparing the cron and a 35/2.5 Skopar, but I guess that can be explained by them being from Germany and Leica-fans ;-).

 

[victoriapio]

Well my local dealer is currently one of the highest selling Leica dealers in the UK. A lot of their sales are currently to other European countries due to our very weak currency. They have never had it so good! What is actually selling thouhg is M8's and hardly any 8.2's. The other thing is all the second hand gear has been mopped up. The £500 off deal is now being extended to the end of June and this makes an M8 £2,300. I still think if leica had introduced an M8 around this price initially even if making little on the body they would have made it back in lens and accessories sales in no time.

Basically enjoy your M8. Even if you start lusting for an M9 there will be nay sayers waiting for the M10. Im looking back on 3 years of brilliant images. If and when something better comes along im in but certainly not loosing any sleep over it.

Richard

Here! Here!

Why would any of us need "better digital capture technology?" That is bascially what new digital cameras are. How much better can the images become; how much better can capture software get? OK OK, the M8 infra red issue was a nightmare for photographers and Leica. But solutions were found and the camera, in my opinion, is as reliable as my canon DSLRs. Despite the flaws in the M8 when introduced, the camera still produces great images when the photographer does his/her part.

Sure if you are published regularly and magazines are offering you tons of money for your photography, step up. Photo editors like seeing clickers walk in with the latest models. But if you are like most RFFers, you are a very serious "photographer." I see brilliant images on the NWs posts everyday that WOULD NOT be helped by the latest digital introduction. In fact many of those images are shot on film.

Since I am no longer a full time PJer, I have found my day-to-day shooter in the M8. If I can afford it sure I would like to go to a FF M9, but if I cannot afford it the M8 allows me to capture the world as much as my photography skill will allow. If you include the ultra wide angles from CV, there is not a single focal length you cannot shoot on the M8 than you can on the M7, except for about 3mm on the 12mm lens. Digital may look different than film but it is the eye of the person behind the camera that creates the image. Use what you have, what you can afford and you can still produce memorable images.

 

[Ben Z]

Basically enjoy your M8. Even if you start lusting for an M9 there will be nay sayers waiting for the M10. Im looking back on 3 years of brilliant images. If and when something better comes along im in but certainly not loosing any sleep over it.

Richard

+1! Waiting impatiently for the present to turn into the past so the future can arrive is something I gave up sometime around age 40. Carpe diem.

 

[Richard Marks]

Slightly off topic but I recently acquired a really nice Contax IIa with 50 1.5 Sonar. I took a series of shots along side my M6 with 50 lux. Same film same exposure both rolls processed in the same tank and same exposure on my enlarger. The results were absolutely amazing. A 65 year old Zeiss lens still performed very close to the latest 50 lux. If anything it was slightly higher contrast. Maybe not quite up to it but a 65 year old camera lens worth around £250 can still cut it against the very latest 50 ASPH on an M body. My point is simply at the highest end of the market things do not change all that much. There are large outlays for marginal gain. Certainly an M9 full frame would be nice. I would like to have the same perspective on both film and digital bodies, but Im betting image quality improvements are going to be marginal. I am not that bothered about high iso noise as I generally expose around the same ISOs with film and 640ISO with fast lenses is loads. It is already pretty dam good. Marketing is designed to make you feel insecure and that your equipment is obsolete. The camera shop has you lusting for the shiny gear and offers buttons for your old stuff in return.

Incidently can any technically minded help me out. My calculations are that by 10 Mega pixels for a 35mmx25mm sensor, Lens resolution is already limiting. This is based on assuming a column of 5 pixels is needed to resolve 2 line pairs. Guestimating the pixel density of a 35x25 sensor this gives around 200 line pairs per cm . No lens can get close to that. What am I missing?

beatiful light here this evenning

Best wishes


Richard

 

[Kevin]

How much better can the images become; how much better can capture software get?...

Could you please stop telling us what we want/need? It's really annoying.

By all means tell us what you want/need but please keep it at that.

A lot of wide-angle shooters are here on this forum, most notably 28mm and 35mm focal length shooters who really work well with the field of view, magnification and speed of these lenses.

I am one of those people.

 

[jaapv]

Could you please stop telling us what we want/need? It's really annoying.

By all means tell us what you want/need but please keep it at that.

A lot of wide-angle shooters are here on this forum, most notably 28mm and 35mm focal length shooters who really work well with the field of view, magnification and speed of these lenses.

I am one of those people.

Which is exactly why I am extremely pleased with my new 24 Summilux and the new 21 is superb too. (I wish I could afford them both😱) Not to mention the 18 -both from Zeiss and Leica...