Redseele
Established
I just got an M9 that I'm pretty happy with but I just ran into a problem and I am wondering what you guys think. My different lenses are sharp at different distances. I've tried adjusting the rangefinder to infinity but when I do the following happens when taking a picture 3m away at the maximum aperture:
Summicron 40mm at f2: perfectly sharp!
Summicron Collapsible at f2: Slight front focus.
Zeiss Planar 50mm at f2: heavy front focus, about 5 inches
Jupiter 12 35mm at f2.8: slight front focus, about 2 inches
Industar 50 50mm at 3.5: almost perfectly sharp.
Is there something that I can do with the rangefinder adjustment? I understand that Russian lens are always problematic, but even the Zeiss and the Leicas do not coincide. At longer distances the problem just gets worse. If possible, I wouldn't want to send in my camera and lenses to be calibrated together (as I also use the lenses with an M3 and an M6).
Is there something particularly wrong about the M9 or am I just getting too fidgety (particularly after coming from film Leicas)? Any thoughts on this anyone?
Summicron 40mm at f2: perfectly sharp!
Summicron Collapsible at f2: Slight front focus.
Zeiss Planar 50mm at f2: heavy front focus, about 5 inches
Jupiter 12 35mm at f2.8: slight front focus, about 2 inches
Industar 50 50mm at 3.5: almost perfectly sharp.
Is there something that I can do with the rangefinder adjustment? I understand that Russian lens are always problematic, but even the Zeiss and the Leicas do not coincide. At longer distances the problem just gets worse. If possible, I wouldn't want to send in my camera and lenses to be calibrated together (as I also use the lenses with an M3 and an M6).
Is there something particularly wrong about the M9 or am I just getting too fidgety (particularly after coming from film Leicas)? Any thoughts on this anyone?
Monochrom
Well-known
Check infinity alignment with each lens and take note of any difference.
5 inches on the planar is way too much, thre might be a faulty lens.
5 inches on the planar is way too much, thre might be a faulty lens.
peterm1
Veteran
Leica rangefinders have both an infinity adjustment and a close focus adjustment but I have never done it myself. I have always paid to have a technician make the adjustment as its a terribly fiddly job that requires skill and patience. However, having said this, the fact that the Zeiss is out while the Leica lenses are either spot on or close suggests more a problem with the Zeiss lens rather than the camera rangefinder. If you were to adjust the camera for the Zeiss, the others would then be out. Older lenses tended to have adjustment rings to move the lens unit in or out. This is what you will probably find with the Russian lenses if you screw the lens apart. Newer lenses have other arrangements to achieve the same. Front focus suggests that the lens elements are slightly too far away from where they should be. (Moving the lens elements forward brings the focus point closer. Yours seems to be closer than it should be). Of course all focus mis alignments isalso more noticeable at close range as at close range depth of field is much less.
Redseele
Established
Hmmmm. All my lenses are old and very used (often they have had more than two owners). I wonder if I should trust my Zeiss lens (which was bought new) and just work from there to adjust my M9 infinity and close focus.
... or maybe I should just send everything to Leica NJ and have the RF adjusted by them. Anyone knows how much this costs and how long it would take? It seems like it should be a simple thing for them.
... or maybe I should just send everything to Leica NJ and have the RF adjusted by them. Anyone knows how much this costs and how long it would take? It seems like it should be a simple thing for them.
peterm1
Veteran
Its not unusual, in my experience to need have to have new M cameras adjusted when purchased second hand especially if the prior owner has had the body calibrated to his lenses.
And to make matters worse Leica Ms can get out of whack for no apparent reason. I had mine tweaked for my Summicron 50mm when I purchased it second hand (very low mileage). Then a couple of years later suddenly the rangefinder was out by miles and with no specific identifiable reason it was backfocussing at close range by between 6 and 10 inches with various lenses. The only reason I can figure is that I had been on a holiday and perhaps all the vibration on the aircraft and bus transfers had caused the rangefinder calibration to drift. One thing i know for sure is the camera had not taken a bump of any sort so I was left with this hypothesis that it might have been sustained vibration. It is one of the disadvantages of using this old analogue technology with a digital body. One thing I learned from researching it online is that the internet is full of threads on the subject suggesting its a very common issue. So don't feel too bad, it goes with the territory.
The additional resolution of digital cameras makes it more important for gear to be closely on-spec. Often a lens that has been fine with film in the past may not be in good enough adjustment for digital.
With a group of items such as one or more bodies and several lenses, the right way to bring them to mutual agreement on focus is to adjust every item individually to the universal standard spec. That way each lens will work properly with any on-spec body you encounter and vice versa. Chances are good that it's not the M9 that's out of adjustment.
Best suggestion is to send everything to a good tech and have him make sure everything is on-spec. The wrong way to do this is to pick one body or lens that you think is right on and call it correct and try to adjust your other items to match. You would thus be generating your own standard, to some degree incompatible with other gear.
Once you are sure that your M9 is correctly adjusted, though, it could be interesting and educational to attempt some DIY shimming on the older lenses...
With a group of items such as one or more bodies and several lenses, the right way to bring them to mutual agreement on focus is to adjust every item individually to the universal standard spec. That way each lens will work properly with any on-spec body you encounter and vice versa. Chances are good that it's not the M9 that's out of adjustment.
Best suggestion is to send everything to a good tech and have him make sure everything is on-spec. The wrong way to do this is to pick one body or lens that you think is right on and call it correct and try to adjust your other items to match. You would thus be generating your own standard, to some degree incompatible with other gear.
Once you are sure that your M9 is correctly adjusted, though, it could be interesting and educational to attempt some DIY shimming on the older lenses...
Fraser
Well-known
I set up my m9 at close focus with my most used lens a 35mm, checked that focus would reach infinity and it's been fine ever since. I would rather have accurate close and medium focus and maybe be off a bit at infinity. I would suggest if you don't want to do it yourself just go to a local repair shop don't bother with sending anything to leica, it's not a difficult job.
Redseele
Established
I will try to do this myself today and if I am not happy at the end of the day I'll have someone check the camera and my lenses. Does anyone know a good place to send this to in New York City? I'd rather work locally if it is not worth it to send it to Leica itself.
Also, anyone has any idea on the prices? Thank you for all your help so far.
Also, anyone has any idea on the prices? Thank you for all your help so far.
Redseele
Established
Alright, for anyone who might be looking into this in the future here's what happened.
Today I tested the rangefinder again. The difference, this time I did it outside in the middle of the day, with more contrasting subject. Infinity was off by a big margin, so after I corrected it it turns out all lenses focus reasonably well. There is a slight difference between all of them (less than half an inch of focus difference) but in general they all look great.
Some considerations must be taken into account though:
- The Zeiss Planar only appears misfocused when at closest distance (0.7m) at f2. No one I know ever takes pictures (even portraits) at closest distance at maximum aperture. Meaning, that if there's any problem with this lens, even in digital photography, it is only really theoretical. And it's not even that big of a problem (on a ruler test the back focus is less than half an inch).
- The Summicron 40mm is still my best performer, but I think that is because this is a 40mm lens, not a 50, meaning that any depth of field that might appear at closes distance (0.8m) disappears in practical terms at larger distances. Again, a theoretical problem whose exactitude does not translate into practical shooting.
I guess this is again one of those cases about people (myself included) who are fuzzy about theoretical problems (which might come out in very strict tests, much like shooting brick walls) that do not translate into real life necessarily. Words of wisdom for next time we might have "problems" with out gear that might come from focusing on gear and not on actual photography: theory only gets you so far, go out and shoot instead
Thank you everyone for helping me with this. I hope future readers of this thread will take advantage of my experience.
Today I tested the rangefinder again. The difference, this time I did it outside in the middle of the day, with more contrasting subject. Infinity was off by a big margin, so after I corrected it it turns out all lenses focus reasonably well. There is a slight difference between all of them (less than half an inch of focus difference) but in general they all look great.
Some considerations must be taken into account though:
- The Zeiss Planar only appears misfocused when at closest distance (0.7m) at f2. No one I know ever takes pictures (even portraits) at closest distance at maximum aperture. Meaning, that if there's any problem with this lens, even in digital photography, it is only really theoretical. And it's not even that big of a problem (on a ruler test the back focus is less than half an inch).
- The Summicron 40mm is still my best performer, but I think that is because this is a 40mm lens, not a 50, meaning that any depth of field that might appear at closes distance (0.8m) disappears in practical terms at larger distances. Again, a theoretical problem whose exactitude does not translate into practical shooting.
I guess this is again one of those cases about people (myself included) who are fuzzy about theoretical problems (which might come out in very strict tests, much like shooting brick walls) that do not translate into real life necessarily. Words of wisdom for next time we might have "problems" with out gear that might come from focusing on gear and not on actual photography: theory only gets you so far, go out and shoot instead
Thank you everyone for helping me with this. I hope future readers of this thread will take advantage of my experience.