Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
The buyers' reviews are now in! The camera (and/or any image coming from it) already sucks.
Honestly, I'm surprised it took this long.
I'm also surprised that nobody's complained about the "color issue" of this camera (you think I'm kidding, but just you wait) just like people complained about the "IR issue" of the M8.
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
Maybe not afraid, but if I were to pay $8000 for a B&W digital, I'd expect every single effect in Silver Efex to be thrown in there and presented in an intuitive and easy to tweak manner.
To much to ask?
Maybe not afraid, but if I were to pay $8000 for a B&W digital, I'd expect every single effect in Silver Efex to be thrown in there and presented in an intuitive and easy to tweak manner.
To much to ask?
Yep, too much to ask. Leica is no frills at luxury prices. My point is that PP is part of the process and it is necessary to get what you WANT from a camera... to get your vision of what a photo should look like. That goes for the wet darkroom or software.
rbelyell
Well-known
well, my sd12, my 5d, my x100, my OMD, can't think of any others off hand, sorry. btw, combined the above cameras come in at a lower price point than this one.
i also think theres a big difference between 'tweaking' images and a requirement for wholesale editing, certainly at this price. we're not even talking about 'fulfilling a vision', we,re talking about getting a decent file!
tony
rbelyell
Well-known
yup, thats my big issue with leica. they are a 'lexus' company (ok, maybe there's an argument that theyre a 'maserati' company), but they charge 'ferrari' prices.
tony
Araakii
Well-known
Unfortunately Steve Huff would've produced probably the same quality of work that this tester did, if not worse.
Araakii
Well-known
Agreed. I am totally fine with the flat tone in the raw files. That's how my film scans come straight out of the scanner most of the time anyways. A certain level of PP is definitely required.
Araakii
Well-known
You are right Patrick. The photos would be totally fine if they are on flickr or someone's blog about his trip. But I expect more from these cherry picked testers. Certainly the images would not deter me from considering the M9M, simply because I know that it was just the photographer's issue here, but they certainly do no good to promote the camera either. With all those promotional and marketing efforts that Leica puts in, I wish that they sometimes have better eyes to choose the sample photos.
Araakii
Well-known
There are too many "nice" people on the internet. That's why you get tons of craps and it's so hard to navigate to find the good shots. But the RFF gallery is already the best I've seen in any photography forum. A lot of the stuff there is way better than these test images.
ChrisC
Established
So can I assume an M9 infrared will be next?
Probably the improved M10 which should render more detailed B&W files than the M9M but without chucking away all that fabulous colour information which some of us find vital to use in converting to B&W.
The camera will sell of course, and I think that Leica did get the finish right with the black chrome, and absence of the ghastly red dot and/or engraved corporate graffiti.
Hey; why should I care? I can't afford the damn thing anyway.
........... Chris
dave lackey
Veteran
Okay, the color issue....why does it only come in BLACK? What's wrong with a red, green or blue camera?
TXForester
Well-known
So what? You aren't suppose to grade the photos on artistic merit. It's a preview of the camera. Many of the latest digital cameras are capable great images, yet they are used to produce poor images. Ask if the camera is good, not if the photographer is good.
wentbackward
Newbie
There are a lot of miserable people in the world, aren't there!
dude163
Member
a few more it seems since leica announced a M9M not a M10
icebear
Veteran
How many of the folks critizing the artistic value of the shots, which is pretty much a YMMV thing, have actually followed the link provided by Biel ?
Have you downloaded the couple of MB files to inspect what the technical capabilities of the camera are? Who is judging Tri X because of the the artistic value of some test shots? The camera gives anyone who can afford it a superior tool. It does not shoot or frame a single picture itself, it doesn't even focus. It's only as good as the vision of the person holding it. If you have a mediocre composition, a boring theme that is not telling others anything, technical perfection doesn't really make it into art. But with the "Henri" you are for sure wrong, blaming any technical shortcomings of the camera, if you screw up, just my $0.02
flip
良かったね！
It's nice that they would make a niche product.
As for the differences between the currently available digitals for B/W --- I remember when people cared about the difference between 5600 Baud and 2400 Baud modems.
As for the differences between the currently available digitals for B/W --- I remember when people cared about the difference between 5600 Baud and 2400 Baud modems.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
TXForester
Well-known
I wonder if a certain departed landscape photographer would have an issue with these?
Do they come in an El Capitan size?
dude163
Member
and do they come in grey?
jonoslack
Member
Introducing myself
Introducing myself
I thought it might be worth presenting myself in your discussion. I can't defend the indefensible (the quality of my photography), and the (too) gentle touch of my post processing.
I can however explain the explainable, and perhaps a little more could be said about the situation and circumstances. As for how Leica choose their testers, I can only assume that it's for the usefulness of the camera testing rather than the quality of their photography or their blogging.
I had the camera for nearly two whole days before the trip to China; I'm not making excuses for either of us, but relationships often develop with familiarity. As for the images looking like tourist snaps: well, that's exactly what they are. It's easier to present artistic intent when one concentrates on a particular aspect. My intent was not to make everyone say, 'Wow, what a great photographer,' it was to show as many different aspects of the camera as possible. That also meant posting a lot of images, which is a challenge from a short trip with a new camera.
The light in China was incredibly flat, almost no sunshine and rather poor visibility,big white skies - one is not obliged to subscribe to this flatness, but I had this in the back of my mind when processing the images.
Post processing is a different issue, and in retrospect I accept the criticism. I should probably have had more conviction. I'm actual considering doing a much smaller gallery of my favourites with the intent of everyone saying, 'Ah, maybe he isn't such a bad photographer after all.' Truth to tell there are images that I'm proud of, but perhaps they are rather lost in the rush.
None of these images are out of camera jpgs - these jpgs are actually very good, but I shot everything as DNG+jpg and used the DNG files.
The files themselves were very unfamiliar, much more different than you might imagine. So was the imposed workflow. I usually do conversions from the M9 using Aperture and Silver Efex Pro. In this case the new DNG format meant that I had to use Lightroom instead. This was exacerbated by an unfamiliar route to producing the web files.
One is used to exposing to the right, with some ability to recover details in highlights. This is simply different with the MM files. With no CFA, you will not find details hidden in one of the colour channels, a blown pixel is just that. The quid pro quo is a wealth of detail in shadow areas, and a very extended dynamic range, which, in turn can render images looking a little flat. Perhaps I have treated the extended and rather beautiful mid-tone with too much respect for current tastes.
The roll off from over exposed areas is very gentle and subtle, much nicer than conversions from colour files. This lends an interesting possibility to do high key images, I've dabbled, but not really explored this properly. Certainly it took a day or so to realise that over-exposure was not to be done lightly. Recent firmware changes have also addressed this issue.
I'm trying to be even handed here, but I really fell that this is a different medium. It's not like demosaiced digital files converted to black and white, but it isn't like film either.
It's going to take some time to work out how to fit it into our photographic pshyche - the one thing I'm absolutely certain of is that it does have a place there.
I hope this is of some interest
All the best
Jonathan Slack
Introducing myself
I thought it might be worth presenting myself in your discussion. I can't defend the indefensible (the quality of my photography), and the (too) gentle touch of my post processing.
I can however explain the explainable, and perhaps a little more could be said about the situation and circumstances. As for how Leica choose their testers, I can only assume that it's for the usefulness of the camera testing rather than the quality of their photography or their blogging.
I had the camera for nearly two whole days before the trip to China; I'm not making excuses for either of us, but relationships often develop with familiarity. As for the images looking like tourist snaps: well, that's exactly what they are. It's easier to present artistic intent when one concentrates on a particular aspect. My intent was not to make everyone say, 'Wow, what a great photographer,' it was to show as many different aspects of the camera as possible. That also meant posting a lot of images, which is a challenge from a short trip with a new camera.
The light in China was incredibly flat, almost no sunshine and rather poor visibility,big white skies - one is not obliged to subscribe to this flatness, but I had this in the back of my mind when processing the images.
Post processing is a different issue, and in retrospect I accept the criticism. I should probably have had more conviction. I'm actual considering doing a much smaller gallery of my favourites with the intent of everyone saying, 'Ah, maybe he isn't such a bad photographer after all.' Truth to tell there are images that I'm proud of, but perhaps they are rather lost in the rush.
None of these images are out of camera jpgs - these jpgs are actually very good, but I shot everything as DNG+jpg and used the DNG files.
The files themselves were very unfamiliar, much more different than you might imagine. So was the imposed workflow. I usually do conversions from the M9 using Aperture and Silver Efex Pro. In this case the new DNG format meant that I had to use Lightroom instead. This was exacerbated by an unfamiliar route to producing the web files.
One is used to exposing to the right, with some ability to recover details in highlights. This is simply different with the MM files. With no CFA, you will not find details hidden in one of the colour channels, a blown pixel is just that. The quid pro quo is a wealth of detail in shadow areas, and a very extended dynamic range, which, in turn can render images looking a little flat. Perhaps I have treated the extended and rather beautiful mid-tone with too much respect for current tastes.
The roll off from over exposed areas is very gentle and subtle, much nicer than conversions from colour files. This lends an interesting possibility to do high key images, I've dabbled, but not really explored this properly. Certainly it took a day or so to realise that over-exposure was not to be done lightly. Recent firmware changes have also addressed this issue.
I'm trying to be even handed here, but I really fell that this is a different medium. It's not like demosaiced digital files converted to black and white, but it isn't like film either.
It's going to take some time to work out how to fit it into our photographic pshyche - the one thing I'm absolutely certain of is that it does have a place there.
I hope this is of some interest
All the best
Jonathan Slack