mamiya 7 to 5d II (long post)

This is my theory - it was mentioned somewhere that the lens exhibited some slight focus shift on a test chart, it then got blown out of proportion x1,000,000 on forums and as 'internet law' and every forum guy that bought one tested it on newspaper hung up on a wall, realized that it had focus shift and bad mouthed it on more forums. In real life, it's a gorgeous lens...

'most interesting' flickr shots by 50L:
http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=50mm+1.2L&ss=2&s=int
 
I was honest when I said I don't get GAS often. Can't afford it and pretty confident in the equipment I already have. It has taken me a year + to even want a 5d II! Like someone else said, it will still be the same camera in a few years as it is now. That being said it is fun to speculate about what could be in a mark III. OR what sort of video features MF back manufactures are sure to implement sooner or later.

True, it will still be the same camera in a few years but it can still be annoying to buy a camera its replacement coming out shortly after, especially if you see the price of the 'old' model plummet.

I wouldn't count too much on MF back manufacturers introducing video features in the near future. They haven't even managed to get LiveView yet or decent LCDs for that matter. Also, there are some clear disadvantages MF has in regards to video compared to 35mm like slow lenses and bad high ISO. And the higher resolution isn't that much of an advantage.

I'm not sure how much further the whole HD-DSLR thing is going to go. It seems to be a short term solution as far as filmmaking is concerned. You need a load of additional gear just to make a 5DII useable for video. Sooner or later the big manufacturers will release proper FF video cameras with good audio and maybe even RAW capture.
 
I know that the 50L has a lot of problems with back-focus, but everybody says that the new models (UY and newer) no longer have that problem.

I agree with Gavin re the 50L. Much misinformation and internet hyperbole signifying little. The 50L suffers from focus shift by design. Canon service can re-calibrate the lens so that the shift falls more acceptably within the DOF as you stop down b/w f1.2 to around f2.8, although there apparently is some copy variation involved that impacts the degree to which re-calibration improves focus in that range. There's been no change in the lens design.

The ZE lenses appear to be especially popular among the video users, as far as I know. Would love to try any of them except for the cost - I'm tapped out.
 
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Don't underestimate the video capabilities... I heard that news reporting on the Haiti earthquake wanted video. They pulled some stills form the video (yikes) but with tv, mags and newspaper internet focused, the first request was for video. The 5DII or any of Nikon's FX cameras should do. I'd get a wide, light zoom like the 17-40mm L and maybe a couple of primes (24 or 28mm) and maybe a fast 50mm. You certainly don't need a f/1.2 - too heavy, too expensive and unnecessary when you can boost the ISO up to previously unheard of levels (Although I'm a Canon guy, Nikon's low ISO image quality whips the pants off anything that Canon currently has; I expect Canon to address that in its next lineup.)

My best recommendations would be to take a business marketing class, have a laptop with lightroom or aperture and passion. I know a photographer who has a Canon 40D, 50mm 1.4 and a great attitude, knows post-processing and she takes photos that are out of this world.

What are your goals with photography (what do you want to do)?
 
I agree with Gavin re the 50L. Much misinformation and internet hyperbole signifying little. The 50L suffers from focus shift by design. Canon service can re-calibrate the lens so that the shift falls more acceptably within the DOF as you stop down b/w f1.2 to around f2.8, although there apparently is some copy variation involved that impacts the degree to which re-calibration improves focus in that range. There's been no change in the lens design.

The ZE lenses appear to be especially popular among the video users, as far as I know. Would love to try any of them except for the cost - I'm tapped out.

I kinda disagree. I don't think it was misinformation. It was a matter of varying experiences, and the resulting reports were valid.

I bought an early 50L. Well, three of them. I had a 5D(v1) and the first 50L was just plain soft. I tried another sample. A bit better, but still soft. The third was better still, but none of them performed as well as my old 50/1.4. Bokeh was better, sure, but i couldn't justify keeping the L and being out $1400 to get bokeh that was only a little better than a lens that already did bokeh better than most other 50s.

Later, after the 5DMk2 came out, i tried another 50L. Soft again. But, the Mk2 body's micro-focus adjustment feature allowed me to dial in better performance. With that, the 50L was now very close in sharpness to my old 50/1.4. So, i kept it. It was still much more money, but i didn't have to feel like i was getting compromised sharpness, so i didn't have to feel like an L-stooge.

Still, i sent the lens (and camera, i think) to Canon Professional Services to calibrate. It came back not quite as good as when i sent it. Canon said they couldn't do anything to improve it further, and found no problems with it. So, it came back still not performing better than my old cheap 50/1.4. I found that to be unacceptable.

There are a lot of people who have been unsatisfied with the 50L. And i supppose a good number who love it. But among all the images shown by people who say it's "wonderful," actual 'performance' isn't really demonstrated. People will tout the aesthetic, but too often it seems like a rationalization. Maybe, too, those people just weren't comparing their 50L results with anything. Or maybe they were comparing it to a lemon 50/1.4. As long as they're happy..... But, i'm not impressed by the body of work it has produced so far.

re: the Zeiss.... I was soooo happy to hear that Zeiss was making lenses for the Nikon mount and then later for Canon. But, the bokeh of the 50/1.4 is just horrendous at 1.4. Scared me away from buying it, and i wanted that lens way before it was announced. I've had Zeiss Planars for Rolleiflex, Hasselblad, Contax N, Contax C/Y, and Contax G. But, the ZE and ZF 50/1.4s just don't do things the same way. 50/2 seems better, but i have always gotten sharper and more consistent accurate focus with AF lenses on an AF camera.

The Sigma 50/1.4 is an alternative. I had one before the 50L. Bokeh is the BEST - better than the 50L. But the AF seemed a bit inconsistent. There's a guy named Markus Schwarze [EDIT: Sorry, i had previously said Markus Schulze.... It's SCHWARZE. Here:]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/wefwef/tags/sigma50mmf14hsm/

...on flickr who does some fantastic things with the Sigma. He reports no AF issues on his 5DMk2 and EOS1.
 
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For what it's worth:


f1.2L -
_MG_4325.jpg




50mm 1.4 -
IMG_7265.jpg




Both wide open and both the repeatable average from each lens. Both sharpened, moreso the 1.2L shot - the f1.4 has the resolution but that hazy glow makes it very difficult to sharpen further. I find the sigma 50mm to be 98% of the 1.2L, but slightly less characterful. It's just super smooth and sharp and totally predictable - AF is spot on all the time. It's the one I use now. I'd definitely recommend it.

(sorry for the average snaps - everything else I currently have I don't have permission to post)
 
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I kinda disagree. I don't think it was misinformation. It was a matter of varying experiences, and the resulting reports were valid.

Sorry I'm not clearer. The misinformation I mention refers to people claiming the lens can't focus and is poorly designed. The 50L has focus shift by design. The challenge, as with other lenses that exhibit focus shift, is to work with it, if you see any value in doing so.


I bought an early 50L. Well, three of them. I had a 5D(v1) and the first 50L was just plain soft. I tried another sample. A bit better, but still soft. The third was better still, but none of them performed as well as my old 50/1.4. Bokeh was better, sure, but i couldn't justify keeping the L and being out $1400 to get bokeh that was only a little better than a lens that already did bokeh better than most other 50s.

Exactly right. If all you see from the 50L is slightly better bokeh, keep the 50/1.4. Quite sensible.

After the 5DMk2 came out, i tried another 50L. Soft again. But, the Mk2 body's micro-focus adjustment feature allowed me to dial in better performance. With that, the 50L was now very close in sharpness to my old 50/1.4. So, i kept it. It was still much more money, but i didn't have to feel like i was getting compromised sharpness, so i didn't have to feel like an L-stooge.

Still, i sent the lens (and camera, i think) to Canon Professional Services to calibrate. It came back not quite as good as when i sent it. Canon said they couldn't do anything to improve it further, and found no problems with it. So, it came back still not performing better than my old cheap 50/1.4. I found that to be unacceptable.

My only suggestion would have been to contact Canon Service (Irvine's really good for this btw), explain that you'd like the lens calibrated to distribute the DOF more optimally near MFD from f1.2 to f2.8 which is where the shift occurs. In other words, tell them exactly what you want them to do, not the generic "this lens is soft" complaint. It's a specialist lens, very fast, and merits fine tuning, if you value its potential.


There are a lot of people who have been unsatisfied with the 50L. And i supppose a good number who love it. But among all the images shown by people who say it's "wonderful," actual 'performance' isn't really demonstrated. People will tout the aesthetic, but too often it seems like a rationalization. Maybe, too, those people just weren't comparing their 50L results with anything. Or maybe they were comparing it to a lemon 50/1.4. As long as they're happy..... But, i'm not impressed by the body of work it has produced so far.

I really don't know what to say. If you insist that "a lot of people" are unsatisfied with the 50L and you only "supppose [sic]" a good number love it and you don't see any work with it that impresses you, then yeah why would you even bother with it at all?

: the Zeiss.... I was soooo happy to hear that Zeiss was making lenses for the Nikon mount and then later for Canon. But, the bokeh of the 50/1.4 is just horrendous at 1.4. Scared me away from buying it, and i wanted that lens way before it was announced. I've had Zeiss Planars for Rolleiflex, Hasselblad, Contax N, Contax C/Y, and Contax G. But, the ZE and ZF 50/1.4s just don't do things the same way. 50/2 seems better, but i have always gotten sharper and more consistent accurate focus with AF lenses on an AF camera.

The 21/2.8, 35/2, 50/2, and 100/2 are well-regarded. The 50/1.4 less so, yes. Not every lens from every mfg is an outright winner. I can see why you wouldn't bother with them if you do better with AF since they're all MF lenses in the ZE/ZF mounts.
 
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a few pics from the 50L:
 

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sorry for the OT drift, rp. are you settling on a 5D II for your digi needs? i think the reason lenses came up for discussion is that canon digi bodies do have a lot of lens options ...
 
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Haha I didn't want to be rude! It is semi-relevant information still, since we are talking high-end cameras and lenses to go along with it.

Anyways yeah I am definitely gunning for the 5d II and some solid L primes. Spend the money now and it might save me some later. Maybe even make me some later.
 
Oh yeah, are there some 5dII photographers out there who don't digitally trash their photos like the ones on flickr? I'm thinking much more classically styled photos. Much, much, more subtle.

What I've learned so far from working with both film and a 5DII is that with digital it takes much more tweaking than I'm usually comfortable with with my scanned negs.
If you go to art school it might be worth getting together with a highly skilled retoucher in order to get your desired results. Fashion photography is a team sport and your pictures are only as good as the weakest link in the chain of make-up, styling, location/studio, lighting, photography and retouching.
 
Why not become a highly skilled retoucher as well as a highly skilled photographer? serious question. too much work?

Of course it can't hurt if you're both and when you're starting out you don't have much choice but doing it yourself (unless you're rich). However, if you're around other creative people it surely can't hurt working together and taking advantage of eachother's skills.
Also, it's just a pain if you ask me 🙂
 
Why not become a highly skilled retoucher as well as a highly skilled photographer? serious question. too much work?

Personally, I'd rather be shooting than scanning in negs or post-processing digital files. But, the better you get at shooting, the less you have to do in post, so it ain't all that bad. Some of the great photographers have/had master printers working there images up for them, so digital retouchers are just the current version of that. And even though there are some great retouchers out there, it's often best to do it yourself to keep your style going.

The image quality you get with modern, high-end DSLRs or DRFs is outstanding, in my opinion. I don't do any more post than I would if I was working a print...
 
And even though there are some great retouchers out there, it's often best to do it yourself to keep your style going.

Not really. The way it usually works is that you tell the retoucher what you want the picture to look like and you can check up along the way to see if it's on the right track. So you still keep your style even though someone else is doing the labour.
 
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