Mamiya 7II & Bronica RF645 Compared

[Doug]

I'd guess if the MF market hadn't collapsed, and the RF645 discontinued long before it deserved, that Bronica/Tamron probably would have brought out a 30 or 35mm lens. Too bad that won't happen.

BTW, in case it hasn't been mentioned, the faint buzz/wheeze sound the Bronica makes is the electronic recocking of the shutter, so of course occurs after the actual exposure is over. Some people had earlier thought it signalled a delay between pressing the button and the instant of exposure.

Way, interesting comparison shots!

 

[Turtle]

I have played around with the shutter on my RF645 and I think there is some noticeable lag there, but the vast majority of the sound occurs after it has tripped, so not a major issue really. Not as quick to trip and the mamiya 7 though, thats pretty clear to me. That one seems to fire the instant you click and is very easy to be sure of the precise moment you caught. This was very evident during a recent trip and the exposures showed that you know exactly where you are with the Mamiya. I got used to the relative lightness compared to the RF645 and in the time I have had the camera I have only had one accidental firing of the shutter (got my feet)

 

[Pherdinand]

Nice.
Now, how do they compare to the Fujica 6x9 monsters? 🙂

 

[Pherdinand]

The 6, maybe. But not the 7.
The 7 with a normal lens costs more than twice as much as the Fujica's.
Of course, if you can afford that, you do get exchangeable lenses...

 

[Way]

Here's apples to apples for the 645 folks: Bronica and Fujica GS645 folder.

 

[Way]

Mamiya 7 II + 80mm lens arrived today (thanks Hiromu) and it really is about the same size as the Mamiya 6 with 50mm lens extended.

 

[tron]

How about maintenance of the RF645 ? It being a discontinued item of Tamron, does it bother any of you as users ? I appreciate for those who has owned one before its discontinuation, there's not much of a choice. How, however, for those who have decided to acquire one in the second hand market after its discontiinuation, did you make up your mind ?

 

[Way]

All the Mamiyas, Bronicas and Fujicas are discontinued items. I believe Tamron still services the Bronica. And there are very good repair services out there.

How about maintenance of the RF645 ? It being a discontinued item of Tamron, does it bother any of you as users ? I appreciate for those who has owned one before its discontinuation, there's not much of a choice. How, however, for those who have decided to acquire one in the second hand market after its discontiinuation, did you make up your mind ?

 

[PhotoMat]

All the Mamiyas, Bronicas and Fujicas are discontinued items. I believe Tamron still services the Bronica. And there are very good repair services out there.

The Mamiya 6 has been discontinued, but the 7II is still in production.

 

[Way]

Thanks PhotoMat, I did not know that.

The Mamiya 6 has been discontinued, but the 7II is still in production.

 

[foto_mike]

Sadly, Bronica discontinued the RF645 on Oct 14, 2005 according to this press release.

They state they will continue to service the RF645 until Oct 2012 (seven years from the discontinue date):

Tamron USA, Inc. is fully prepared to carry on servicing Bronica equipment for seven years from the official date of discontinuation of each model. “While I understand the market situation and the need to discontinue the Bronica line, I must admit that I was a little disappointed,” stated Pat Simonetti, Technical & Customer Service Manager of Tamron USA, Inc. “We are well prepared to continue servicing our users and thank them all for their support over the years.”

Customers with service questions may contact Tamron USA, Inc. at 631-858-8400.

 

[Steve Bellayr]

How does one deal with the slow lens f/4.0 as compared to a Leica f/2.0, which is the camera that many compare it to? Did this require the use of ASA 400 film exclusively?
How quickly did you adjust to the vertical format?

 

[Turtle]

f4 is not a huge problem. In terms of DOF f4 is the same on a 65mm lens as f2 is on a 35mm - roughly. When in need, use a tripod, otherwise even films like delta 3200 at 1200 are pretty reasonable in terms of grain in MF. I find that I can hand hold 400 speed films and get as good if not better results from 645 than 100 speed on 35mm. Neopan 400 is very fine grained and looks rather like a fine grained TriX.

The vertcal finder... some hate it and some get used to it in a blink. I found it no bother at all, but if using it side by side with a 35mm, it might get on your nerves. Standing alone I found I stopped thinking about it after about ten seconds.

 

[RObert Budding]

I owned an RF 645 for about two years. Great camera, but I sold it and purchased a Mamiya 7II. No regrets - the Mamiya is a bit bigger, and the ergonomics aren't quite as good. But, oh, the lenses!

The main reason that I sold the Bronica was the film transport. I had to have it serviced under warranty. In addition, I read of many users who also had transport issues. So I lost faith in the build quality.

 

[foto_mike]

How quickly did you adjust to the vertical format?

I'm a people shooter. I may be the only person in the world who doesn't particularly care for square prints. Therefore, the vertical rectangular format is great for me. I adjusted in 10 seconds.

Landscape photographers probably prefer the larger negative area of the Mamiya 7 and the horizontal format.

 

[Debusti Paolo]

i had a problem with transport of my rf645 that was fixed by tamron service in Italy for 80/90 euro!They also checked all the camera's functions,cleaned the Vf and aligned the RF .they said that they are still repairing bronica that are out of production since 30 years and spare parts are still avaible!!I shot my son when he was born into the hospital with rf645 + delta 3200 and i think it's a terrific combo(better than my contax g2 or m6 titan).the 6x4,5 neg are so nice....😀 maybe we can start a thread of rf645 + delta 3200 vs 135mm + summilux🙄

 

[TenOx]

Nice review and comments. Adds some depth to what I've read. To me the most important aspect of photography in general is Picture Quality. Of course, having a camera with you at all times is important to getting any quality at all -- no picture, no comparison.

I've dreamed of a Leica rangefinder for quite a while, but I don't think I can chase down the cost at this point, and there are so many choices too that without making a career of understanding what is what I'm sure I'd bungle it!

Interesting, I read this page moments after committing to a Mamiya 7ii, and now I'm looking forward to it even more! I think it will fit in my pocket better than any of the following options:
OmegaView 45E
RB67 ProSD
Mamiya 23 Standard
D3 / D2oo

most with a bag of lenses, film, backs, instant film holders, meters, dark cloths, loupes, compass (analog GPS), padding, straps, blower, cleaner, CF cards, etc.

Time will tell. I'm most concerned with reliability, longevity and of course, being able to get more glass! (Sounds like the 50, 65 and perhaps a longer lens in that order.)

TenOx

 

[DMA1965]

My thoughts

My thoughts

I am new here and this is a very old thread, but I wanted to join this forum just to comment on this. I too have both the Mamiya 7 and the Bronica RF645. If you force me to choose one it would be the Bronica, hands down. The Mamiya 7 has glass that is second to none. The lenses are the sharpest I have ever used and I have used all the top Leica, Zeiss, Nikon, and other glass. I will state, howerver, that sharpness is not all that matters. Every lens has its own character and its own place in my heart.

The Mamiya 7, however, is by far the biggest pain in the butt camera I have ever owned. Everything is time consuming on it unless you only mount one lens and shoot it exclusively. Changing lenses is a chore. The crappy plastic dark slide key is super delicate and must be turned very slowly to avoid flexing and breaking it. The camera sometimes just stops working when it gets too cold. It is truly a camera to own only if you are willing to deal with all the BS to get absolutely stunning film images, which is delivers admirably.

The Bronica RF 645 is an absolute joy to shoot. It feels perfect in the hand. The darkslide is automatic. The program mode makes shooting a breeze. The settings are very easy to see in the finder and the rangefinder patch is super bright and contrasty. The lens quality is absolutely spectacular. They are not quite as sharp and contrasty as the Mamiya 7 lenses, but the extremely minor differences are easily compensated for in post processing. The images blow away my finest Leica and Nikon (or any 35mm) images to the point that I am literally angry that my $2000 Leica glass and $1600 Leica camera (I am talking used prices here) look positively muddy compared to the 645 shots. Although I have heard of some people having problems with the RF 645 I have had zero issues with mine, except the time I knocked the rangefinder out of alignment a slight bit when I got in a car accident and it fell to the car floor. The rangefinder is easily aligned with a tiny screwdriver through the hole near the viewfinder, however. It gives me 16 perfect shots every time, and is a breeze to load and shoot. I am truly saddened knowing that this fully electronic camera will someday be nearly unserviceable. The one thing the Mamiya 7 seems to have going for it is a fairly easy to source repair network...but you can be sure you will need to repair it.

 

[RObert Budding]

I am new here and this is a very old thread, but I wanted to join this forum just to comment on this. I too have both the Mamiya 7 and the Bronica RF645. If you force me to choose one it would be the Bronica, hands down. The Mamiya 7 has glass that is second to none. The lenses are the sharpest I have ever used and I have used all the top Leica, Zeiss, Nikon, and other glass. I will state, howerver, that sharpness is not all that matters. Every lens has its own character and its own place in my heart.

The Mamiya 7, however, is by far the biggest pain in the butt camera I have ever owned. Everything is time consuming on it unless you only mount one lens and shoot it exclusively. Changing lenses is a chore. The crappy plastic dark slide key is super delicate and must be turned very slowly to avoid flexing and breaking it. The camera sometimes just stops working when it gets too cold. It is truly a camera to own only if you are willing to deal with all the BS to get absolutely stunning film images, which is delivers admirably.

The Bronica RF 645 is an absolute joy to shoot. It feels perfect in the hand. The darkslide is automatic. The program mode makes shooting a breeze. The settings are very easy to see in the finder and the rangefinder patch is super bright and contrasty. The lens quality is absolutely spectacular. They are not quite as sharp and contrasty as the Mamiya 7 lenses, but the extremely minor differences are easily compensated for in post processing. The images blow away my finest Leica and Nikon (or any 35mm) images to the point that I am literally angry that my $2000 Leica glass and $1600 Leica camera (I am talking used prices here) look positively muddy compared to the 645 shots. Although I have heard of some people having problems with the RF 645 I have had zero issues with mine, except the time I knocked the rangefinder out of alignment a slight bit when I got in a car accident and it fell to the car floor. The rangefinder is easily aligned with a tiny screwdriver through the hole near the viewfinder, however. It gives me 16 perfect shots every time, and is a breeze to load and shoot. I am truly saddened knowing that this fully electronic camera will someday be nearly unserviceable. The one thing the Mamiya 7 seems to have going for it is a fairly easy to source repair network...but you can be sure you will need to repair it.

I loved my Bronica RF645, but I sold it and bought a Mamiya 7. Why? because the Bronica film transport was unreliable. It started to feel as if gravel was in the gears during my first year of ownership, so Bronica repaired the camera under warranty. But it started to get balky again within a year of the first repair, so I sold it - including the 100mm lens that was just stunning. Yes, there was a lot to like about the Bronica, but I'm not willing to buy multiple bodies so that I can rotate them in and out of repair. So I'm happy with the change because the Mamiya has been rock solid.

Who knows - maybe I was just unlucky with the RF645 film transport.

 

[Niko]

The Mamiya 7, however, is by far the biggest pain in the butt camera I have ever owned. Everything is time consuming on it unless you only mount one lens and shoot it exclusively. Changing lenses is a chore. The crappy plastic dark slide key is super delicate and must be turned very slowly to avoid flexing and breaking it. The camera sometimes just stops working when it gets too cold. It is truly a camera to own only if you are willing to deal with all the BS to get absolutely stunning film images, which is delivers admirably. The one thing the Mamiya 7 seems to have going for it is a fairly easy to source repair network...but you can be sure you will need to repair it.

My experience (soon 13 years) with the Mamiya 7II is completely different from yours, except for the absolutely stunning quality images 😉 It has been by far my most reliable camera during that time. And for the cold, there is that special battery case...