Mechanical vs electronic shutter, R3A vs R3M

[Erlend]

Hello all. I'm posting for the first time here, but been a lurker for some time.
I can't figure out the difference between the two shutter types, I mean I know you get aperture priority and so, but is mechanical better somehow? Since it's more expensive..

I'm lusting for my first "real" analog camera and am thinking about the R3A and R3M.

Thank you very much

 

[ray*j*gun]

IMHO, a mechanical shutter on a quality camera (like the Bessa's) are every bit as accurate as any electronic shutter. But for me I really don't want to depend on a battery to operate the camera. I don't use a meter unless I am shooting slide film so I like all mechanical cameras anyway!

Good luck.

 

[JRG]

I'm with ray*j*gun. In addition to the battery dependence, I just don't trust electronic gizmos for longevity. Long hence, someone will be able to repair a purely mechanical camera. Electronic devices, I'm not so sure.

 

[Merkin]

IMO, the main question you should ask is whether or not you will use the aperture priority function. Yes, the electronic shutter requires batteries, but external meters do too. Voigtlander isn't showing any signs of going anywhere any time soon, so you should be able to get repairs for a pretty long time to come if anything goes wrong. If you don't think you would use aperture priority, or you think you are a forgetful person who might go out without a spare battery, go with the manual one. I don't think that one design is inherently superior to the other, i think they are equally strong for what they are, and it is just a matter of personal taste, personal shooting style, and location. If you tend to stay in urban or more populated areas, where getting an extra battery if you are caught short is easy, the A is great. If you spend a lot of time in the middle of nowhere, the M might be a better choice.

 

[Erlend]

Thanks.
If that's all that differs I don't understand why, from a business point of view, they make two models of each when it would be more economic to just stick to one shutter type...
Or the different series could have different shutters, like R2 beeing electronic and R3 mechanical...

 

[ruby.monkey]

Some people want a purely mechanical camera, and would shy away from something that depends on batteries; others prefer the advantages that an electronic shutter can provide. Hence the two parallel series of cameras. The model numbers refer to the range of lenses for which each is intended.

My personal opinion is that the *A and *M suffixes are easier to understand than R2Normal, R2Wide, R2McHammer'sTrousersWide, R3Normal... 🙂

 

[Merkin]

Thanks.
If that's all that differs I don't understand why, from a business point of view, they make two models of each when it would be more economic to just stick to one shutter type...
Or the different series could have different shutters, like R2 beeing electronic and R3 mechanical...

All of the bessas, at least as far as the manufacturing process goes, are highly modular, so it is easy and relatively cheap for them to offer their consumers a wide range of choices. The bessa rangefinder cameras themselves are based on a cosina SLR chassis, that has simply been de-slr'ed. The wide range of options makes up for some of the camera's deficiences, such as a short EBL. Another reason for the mechanical and aperture priority systems available in each model is that each model has different framelines, and frameline choice seems to be the main factor in deciding between the different models.

 

[Erlend]

Okey, I see. Thanks for all the answers. Pretty sure I'm landing on the M

 

[Keith]

I'd assume that the electronic shutter would be more accurate and doesn't just operate at defined speeds but has multiple steps in between it's rated speeds. I know the Ikon does and in fact has six other speed stages between say, 125 and 250. I know mechanical shutters are totally reliable and not battery dependant but they don't have this level of subtlety.

Of course this only applies when you are using the camera in AE mode!

 

[aizan]

food for thought:

http://dantestella.com/technical/mechanical.html

 

[ruby.monkey]

Okey, I see. Thanks for all the answers. Pretty sure I'm landing on the M

Why not go for a Leica M3 or M4 instead? You can get a good 'un for about the same price as a new R3M, and (my opinion, obviously) the Leicas are a much more satisfying shooting experience.

 

[Erlend]

I've got a Zorki 6 now, and love it, but find the tiny viewfinder to be a pain since I use glasses. So instead of just buying some new glass for it, I thought I'd get a new camera with better viewfinder. The large ones in the 3 series seems nice.
I don't know much about Leica's, or analog cameras in general actually, but after seeing the prices they go for both new and used, I thought it would be better bang for the buck not going down that road.
I also don't like the attention a Leica draws. Even a hobo recognize the logo and knows it's an expensive brand.

I also like the idea of supporting Cosina and Cameraquest for sticking to their niche and don't going with the flow.

 

[Erlend]

food for thought:

http://dantestella.com/technical/mechanical.html

Interesting link. Thanks

 

[back alley]

contrary to popular thought, not everyone who likes rangefinders ends up with a leica.
i've had a brand new m4-p, an m3 and a cl.

my sig says it all now.

joe

 

[Tom A]

I have both, R3M and R3A. I use them for different types of shooting. The M version is used for slower shots where i can use the EV +/- function to "fine tune" exposures and also it is quicker to compensate for bright or dark areas big enough to fool the meter.
The R3A is usually, but not always, used with a 75mm lens, either the 75f2.5 Heliar or the Summicron 75. These lenses have a narrow enough field of view to not be influenced by excessive sky or ground readings.
As for reliability - both have proven themselves very reliable. A set of batteries in the R3A seems to last about 45-50 rolls, but usually I have replaced them before that. I routinely change batteries in every camera that has them every 6 month (Jan 1 and July 1) or before a trip.
We just went to Japan for a week, three cameras and three lenses along. A R4M with a 21f4.5 ZM Biogon, a M2 with the Nokton 35f1.4 SC and the Zeiss ZM with a 50f1.5 C Sonnar. Not an overly "hectic" trip filmwise (about 30 rolls in all). I brought the ZM along for the AE function and it worked fine as a 50mm dedicated camera (similar finder to the R3M/A). The R4M was used mainly with slower film (Acros 100) and the M2/35 was my "street camera". All batteries changed prior to the trip and no problems whatsoever during the trip. None of these cameras are new - they are seasoned.
Modern cameras are very well built - all manufacturers have learned how to build good solid cameras that will last a long time. So, the old M2 (actually a M2-M with the case hardened gears) probably has seen the most film through it - as it should in +45 years of use, has a bit slow shutter at 1/1000 - I know this and can compensate for it if needed - although guessing exposures probably has more effect than the 1/800 speed!!

 

[ruby.monkey]

contrary to popular thought, not everyone who likes rangefinders ends up with a leica.
i've had a brand new m4-p, an m3 and a cl.

my sig says it all now.

joe

Oh, I know, nor do I claim this to be the case; but if one is looking to spend $550-600 on a fully-mechanical, unmetered, M-mount rangefinder body, then surely a Leica is worthy of consideration, no? 🙂

For what it's worth I own and use both an R3A and an M3, with an MDa dedicated to my 12mm Heliar. The R3A is an excellent camera, and the obvious choice when I don't wish to have to think too hard about shutter speeds, but the M3 is the one I'd grab if I were ever limited to just one body.

 

[Keith]

Oh, I know, nor do I claim this to be the case; but if one is looking to spend $550-600 on a fully-mechanical, unmetered, M-mount rangefinder body, then surely a Leica is worthy of consideration, no? 🙂

For what it's worth I own and use both an R3A and an M3, with an MDa dedicated to my 12mm Heliar. The R3A is an excellent camera, and the obvious choice when I don't wish to have to think too hard about shutter speeds, but the M3 is the one I'd grab if I were ever limited to just one body.

I had an R3A for a few months and really liked it but eventually decided my M2, in spite of the lack of a meter, is a better shooter! It also owes me about the same as what I paid for my R3A so I agree the Leica is a definite alternative price wise when thinking about a mid priced rangefinder. IMO the Leica's viewfinder is superior to the Bessa's ... not quite as bright maybe but definitely cleaner with better framelines.

 

[ruby.monkey]

I'll confess that I also have an M2 - a well-used button-rewind version - which comes out to play every now and then, but won't really gt regular use until it's been off to CRR for a full service and repaint (I bought it cheap with this in mind). I also used to own an M4, but never really got on with the film loading; and eventually swapped it with another gentleman on RFF for his Linhof Technika 70. I don't mind it so much on the MDa as I don't use it all the time.

I find the M2 finder best for all-round use (35mm - 90mm is my usual range of lenses), while the M3 is pretty much unsurpassed with a 50mm lens, even when compared to the wonderful finder on the R3A. The M4 finder is also very good, but the 135mm frame line started to get on my nerves.

 

[MaxElmar]

Mechanical/Electronic - use whatever kind of camera that works for you.

But I think Dante's website is based on a completely erroneous assumption - that a camera with an "electronic shutter" is simply an electronic device. It is not. It is a mechanical device with an electronic control. As such it is prone to most every malady he describes for "mechanical shutters." And it is also prone to electronic failure. If the camera has a microprocessor, it is prone to every malady that affects your PC. Lock up, software/file corruption, virus, even static electricity.

I realize that "shutters" on compact cameras can be fully electronic devices, but they're not really shutters then, are they?

None of this affects my choice as to which camera to use. A quality camera, properly maintained, will get the job done with great reliability, whatever the technology. When I'm working I shoot whatever get gets the job done most efficiently. When I'm shooting for pleasure I shoot whatever gives me the most pleasure.