Mechanical XPAN, is it possible?

Yes modding the Holga would be certainly easier. I can share details on disassembly. The Lomo would be similar I think, although the finder is for a 30mm lens. With a metal camera you'd need good vice, and they are mechanically much more complex.

IMO the biggest challenge with the DIY pano is the focusing. Only a couple shots of my latest roll were in correct focus. I'm waiting for an accessory rangefinder, hopefully it'll help.


Another idea would be to mod a Fuji GS645, which are relatively compact. I've never held one but I suppose all you would have to do is open the gate, seems it could be ~60mm wide.
 
retinax said:
Not only does it have the panoramic film gate, it also already has the right advance mechanism and finder! This is the obvious choice.
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OlivierAOP said:
The Lomo would be similar I think, although the finder is for a 30mm lens. With a metal camera you'd need good vice, and they are mechanically much more complex.

IMO the biggest challenge with the DIY pano is the focusing. Only a couple shots of my latest roll were in correct focus. I'm waiting for an accessory rangefinder, hopefully it'll help.
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The Lomo Sprocket Rocket has a hotshoe - I was surprised it was a hotshoe and not just a simple coldshoe! You could attach an auxiliary viewfinder with the appropriate focal length, or an external rangefinder.
 
Lens suggestion(s):

For these type of 35 mm panoramic cameras I've seen people are using typicaly

1. Wide angle 6x6 TLR lenses, mainly mamiya 55mm or 65 mm

2. (Super)Angulons like 65mm or 90mm from Technika type 6X9 cameras

3. Mamiya Universal press camera lenses like 50mm or 65mm . With a lens mount available from Cameradactyl it seems to be easier but expensive.
https://www.cameradactyl.com/buttergrip/mupmount

4. Other wide lenses for 4x5 cameras

I guess Mamiya TLR lenses are the cheapest option. I might try that one first.

What are your opinion about the Super Angulon 65mm f8 ?

Any other comparatively cheap large format lens suitable for this kind of project? Particularly Topcor/Topcon lenses?

Thanks
 
I don't see the point in a panoramic with such long focal lengths. What about the 45 mms for Mamiya, Bronica and Pentax 645? Sure, they'll stick out very far because they're made for SLRs, but it's a much more useful/panoramic focal length and they're affordable. More compact but more expensive: tilt/shift lenses for 35mm.
 
retinax said:
I don't see the point in a panoramic with such long focal lengths. What about the 45 mms for Mamiya, Bronica and Pentax 645? Sure, they'll stick out very far because they're made for SLRs, but it's a much more useful/panoramic focal length and they're affordable. More compact but more expensive: tilt/shift lenses for 35mm.
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The issue is that they need to be shuttered. The Bronicas can be disassembled and fitted into a no. 0 shutter. Apparently the Nikon PC-shift lens fit into a no. 3. There is more info on panomicron.com

Another option is the Koni Omega lenses (58 and 60mm) but I think the shutter operation is behind the mount? But it comes with helicoid.

And yes the Topcon 65mm 6x9 would have appropriate coverage, are relatively cheap and can be adapted to an helicoid the same way the Mamiya TLRs can.

IMO the large formats are a bit overkill given that 6x6 coverage is all you need, and wide = expensive in that format.
 
OlivierAOP said:
The issue is that they need to be shuttered.
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Ah yes of course. There is the possibility of extending a focal plane shutter, like the gentleman whose website I've liked somewhere in the beginning of this thread does. Of course that's difficult and probably doesn't work with all fp shutters.
I wonder if leaf shutter behind the lens might work though. It did for some early SLRs and a few RFs.
 
If you have to have a focal plane shutter, look at the design of the Speed Graphic shutter. Heck, even use one. This would be a great point and shoot project.

You can always put a leaf shutter in front of a lens, as long as it doesn't mechanically vignette the image. There are other kinds of shutters for front of the lens use as well. You can make a Harris shutter easily and have different shutter speeds according to as many custom gates you construct.

Any Super Angulon is an outstanding lens.
The 65mm f/8 is slow and pretty much zone-focus only. With anything less than ISO 400 film, you're limited to a tripod.
I think that using the 65/8 SA is "wasting" a lot of image area when just a 35mm strip is cropped out.
Here's my point and shoot 4x5 with a 65mm Super Angulon:

photo_1.JPG


I still insist that the easiest way to do this is to take a 120 folding camera with an existing lens, properly registered to the film plane, along with existing film transport (which is the most difficult part of this construction) is the easiest way to go. Just crop the top and bottom of the film gate off to fit the 35mm format. You have a 24x56mm image area automatically if you use a 6x6. If you use a 6x7 or 6x9, then you have even more, of course. I'm on my 5th panoramic construction, using a torpedo camera back which will expose about 175mm of 120 film. If I were to want a pocketable 35mm panoramic camera, I'd take a Voigtlander Perkeo with a decent lens, and go with it.

Phil Forrest
 
Are there any cheap-ish folding 6x6s for 220 film? Otherwise you're stuck grafting backing paper onto a 135 roll or skip frames, plus you need to open/shut the back midway into the roll. And they usually come with 75mm lens which is a bit long for pano format. My first try was with a Kiev 60 + 45mm. Not fun to carry around!


BTW the German gent at zeissikonveb.de is quite the artisan. DIY Pano SLR. Next level mod!!
 
OlivierAOP said:
Are there any cheap-ish folding 6x6s for 220 film?
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No.
What you need to do, if you take the route of a folder with a red window advance, is to fabricate all your stuff up, then load a sacrificial roll of 35mm and hand index how far you have to turn the advance to get proper frame spacing. This is art you need to suffer for 😉
The frame counter needs to be disregarded or completely removed if it locks the advance.
Otherwise, just get a 6x7 or 6x9 and crop to your heart's content.
Phil Forrest
 
One more thing...
To all the folks who want a mechanical X Pan I have a question: are you hand printing your film or are you scanning it?
I ask this because if you're scanning, just shoot with a really good 35mm camera and an anamorphic lens hung on the front. Then stretch your image in post. If it's good enough for thousands of movies that have made hundreds of billions of dollars over the last 75 years, it's probably good enough for hobby shooters.
Phil Forrest
 
Phil_F_NM said:
No.
What you need to do, if you take the route of a folder with a red window advance, is to fabricate all your stuff up, then load a sacrificial roll of 35mm and hand index how far you have to turn the advance to get proper frame spacing. This is art you need to suffer for 😉
The frame counter needs to be disregarded or completely removed if it locks the advance.
Otherwise, just get a 6x7 or 6x9 and crop to your heart's content.
Phil Forrest
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This is what I did for the Kiev but didn't go as far as modding the counter. Skipped frames and carried a dark bag to reset the counter. The folders are quite compact but @ 75mm...

The 6x7 or 6x9 or anamorphic add-ons are pretty bulky and you might not be able to compose properly. If one is happy with cropping I would suggest cropping digital. I get better results @12MP on the a7II than with the Holga kludge. I speak for myself but a "mechanical Xpan" would use 35mm film and be relatively compact.
 
I was meaning shoot a regular 3:2 35mm camera but hang an anamorphic on the front of whatever lens you choose. As long as the anamorphic lens fits that focal length range and is of sufficient quality, you could have your cake and eat it too. Shoot standard size 35mm frames, scan them at the highest resolution possible, then stretch them in post. This is a no brainer for 2:1 or wider. The only issue is finding full frame 35mm anamorphic lenses, since most are made for 35mm motion picture, which is essentially half-frame for still shooters. The 35mm motion picture anamorphics won't cover the full 24x36mm frame but one for 65mm IMAX would be perfect. Maybe even too big. Might cost as much as buying an XPan...
Either way, there are far easier ways of shooting 35mm panoramic than by hacking cameras and fabbing up film transports. In the end, after all the toil and trouble, a few rolls get shot for proof-of-concept and then the camera gets shelved, given or even sold to someone else, because opportunity cost is a real thing.

Phil Forrest
 
Phil_F_NM said:
Either way, there are far easier ways of shooting 35mm panoramic than by hacking cameras and fabbing up film transports. In the end, after all the toil and trouble, a few rolls get shot for proof-of-concept and then the camera gets shelved, given or even sold to someone else, because opportunity cost is a real thing.

Phil Forrest
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Very true, and you make it sound like it's a bad thing!
 
OlivierAOP said:
Very true, and you make it sound like it's a bad thing!
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Not at all. I'm just a realist about how this goes. I build these things for fun and as a relaxing and challenging exercise. What we call "self care" in my profession. Working on fine mechanical devices takes me out of my head and is almost meditative.

Phil Forrest
 
panF said:
What kind of Helicoid size you're using 12-17mm, 15-26mm, 17-31mm etc?
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It should depend on the focal length and helicoid "speed" or thread pitch. I used a 17-31mm on the 55mm because I had it. It's way too fast: it goes from infinity to 1m in just over a 1/8th turn. Maybe the shorter ones are slower? I have a 12-17 on the way for another project, we'll see.



(Edit: the pitch on the 17-31 helicoid is 24mm per turn... on a Pentax 50mm it's 12)


BTW, for those making their own focusing scales, here's a useful formula. The lens movement from infinity position to focused on subject at distance D (from film plane) is f*f/(D-2f). Don't know how it's derived but it seems accurate (up to D=10*f apparently).


Edit. Did a bit of optics maths and the correct formula is f*f + x*x = x*(D - dN - 2f), where x is the lens movement from infinity position and dN is the distance between principal points. In most cases dN << D, and x << f (for relatively distant subjects, not for close-ups) so it approximates to the simpler formula.
 
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