fidget
Lemon magnet
Here's an example of the Rangefinder model with 45mm lens.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Fuji-GS-645W-...ryZ97017QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Fuji-GS-645W-...ryZ97017QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
clarence
ダメ
Do have a look at our classifieds. I believe there are 4 mamiya kits being offered at the moment, if not recently.harycover said:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost-classifieds/showproduct.php?product=8002&cat=all
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost-classifieds/showproduct.php?product=7911&cat=all
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost-classifieds/showproduct.php?product=7836&cat=all
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost-classifieds/showproduct.php?product=7818&cat=all
Clarence
kuzano
Veteran
Another take on the Fuji 6X9....
Another take on the Fuji 6X9....
The Fuji 6X9 cameras:
G690
GW690
GW690II
Gw690III
And the same range of models in th 670... come with 90 or 100mm standard lens
The GSW model ranges come with 65mm lens which meets your wide angle req.
There is one exception... The early G690 and G690bl had interchangable lens with optons of 65, 100 and 180. These older cameras are often available for around $500 with the normal 100mm lens. The 65mm lens is a premium that often sells by itself for $500+. The 180 is very rare (read expensive)
The older model is all metal and a real TANK!!!! (read durable and heavy). The G690 has a shutter curtain for lens changes midroll. That curtain is the weak link, but still working on most of the G690's I have seen.
The later GW and GSW models are fixed lens, more plastic (lighter) but very good also.
Fuji lenses EBC are incredibly sharp and render wonderful colors and tonality.
I was lusting after Panoramic Fuji equipment, when it struck me that if I use my Fuji G690bl (even with the 100mm lens), I could fabricate a panning head, take two pics that overlap and stitch them together in Photoshop CS3. Since having that idea, I have found three other photographers who do just that, and their work is phenomenal. In fact, I can imagine taking 3 shots and coming up with the equivalent of a 6X24 image with stitching.
Now, if I had the 65mm lens, it would be more effective in terms of wide angle, but remember that the 6X9 format "normal" lens is 90-100mm, and the perspective effect would be more near normal with the longer lens, while the stitching would achieve the wide angle for landscape, or other photography.
I have attached a pic of my Fujica G690bl.
I have owned and used a number of the 645 models, but the 645 is really only 2.7 times the area of a 35mm, while the 6X9 is vastly larger. The 645's are smaller and more transportable, but the Big Fuji's are really managable. Considerably moreso than large format starting at 4X5 inches.
However, your other option would be a moderate large format camera, with a roll film back allowing you to shoot up to 6X17cm on the 4X5 cameras available. They make 6X17 roll film backs that extend back a bit from the placement of the ground glass to achieve the 17cm. At that point, you add the benefits of movements for perspective and focus control, plus a huge selection of lenses from super wide to telephoto. You could buy a camera for well under your budget, plus a lens. However, the large format decision is ripe with future expenditures. But you could get in and be shooting some very nice landscapes for the budget you mentioned.
I bought a Calumet (Gowland Pocket model rebranded) 4X5 for $200 in excellent condition. A 90mm wide angle lens in shutter for another $200. A Bogen 3035 tripod and 3055 ball head for $75. A new Kodak ReadyLoad (new and improved) for $75. The only other expense is film and processing. I have a local lab who does large format processing.
Sorry to go on so long here, but the format decision is really important. Staying with 120 roll film leads me to encourage you to look serious at the Fuji platform. There were thousands built, and at any given time on eBay, there are at least a half dozen or more of just the 690 with 90mm models. There are often two or three of the GSW models with the 65mm lens (fixed). Plus an occasional real early model with the interchangable lenses. If you are not a real gear guy who can deal with issues, I would step up for III series with a low shutter count. Most of the later cameras have a shutter actuation counter.
Be very cautious on eBay. I teach eBay classes, so I stay quite up on the auction site. There's an increasing amount of fraud sneaking into the system. Look for long term and consistent stream of 99+ % feedback and question sellers til you're satisfied if you go that way.
I've enjoyed every Fujica Fuji that I have ever owned including the GA645Zi. But I have to say the GA645Zi was not a camera that I regarded as reliable as most of the other models. I have seen a lot more Zi's with problems, than any other Fuji, other than the poor bellows of the GS645 folding camera.
Good luck
Another take on the Fuji 6X9....
The Fuji 6X9 cameras:
G690
GW690
GW690II
Gw690III
And the same range of models in th 670... come with 90 or 100mm standard lens
The GSW model ranges come with 65mm lens which meets your wide angle req.
There is one exception... The early G690 and G690bl had interchangable lens with optons of 65, 100 and 180. These older cameras are often available for around $500 with the normal 100mm lens. The 65mm lens is a premium that often sells by itself for $500+. The 180 is very rare (read expensive)
The older model is all metal and a real TANK!!!! (read durable and heavy). The G690 has a shutter curtain for lens changes midroll. That curtain is the weak link, but still working on most of the G690's I have seen.
The later GW and GSW models are fixed lens, more plastic (lighter) but very good also.
Fuji lenses EBC are incredibly sharp and render wonderful colors and tonality.
I was lusting after Panoramic Fuji equipment, when it struck me that if I use my Fuji G690bl (even with the 100mm lens), I could fabricate a panning head, take two pics that overlap and stitch them together in Photoshop CS3. Since having that idea, I have found three other photographers who do just that, and their work is phenomenal. In fact, I can imagine taking 3 shots and coming up with the equivalent of a 6X24 image with stitching.
Now, if I had the 65mm lens, it would be more effective in terms of wide angle, but remember that the 6X9 format "normal" lens is 90-100mm, and the perspective effect would be more near normal with the longer lens, while the stitching would achieve the wide angle for landscape, or other photography.
I have attached a pic of my Fujica G690bl.
I have owned and used a number of the 645 models, but the 645 is really only 2.7 times the area of a 35mm, while the 6X9 is vastly larger. The 645's are smaller and more transportable, but the Big Fuji's are really managable. Considerably moreso than large format starting at 4X5 inches.
However, your other option would be a moderate large format camera, with a roll film back allowing you to shoot up to 6X17cm on the 4X5 cameras available. They make 6X17 roll film backs that extend back a bit from the placement of the ground glass to achieve the 17cm. At that point, you add the benefits of movements for perspective and focus control, plus a huge selection of lenses from super wide to telephoto. You could buy a camera for well under your budget, plus a lens. However, the large format decision is ripe with future expenditures. But you could get in and be shooting some very nice landscapes for the budget you mentioned.
I bought a Calumet (Gowland Pocket model rebranded) 4X5 for $200 in excellent condition. A 90mm wide angle lens in shutter for another $200. A Bogen 3035 tripod and 3055 ball head for $75. A new Kodak ReadyLoad (new and improved) for $75. The only other expense is film and processing. I have a local lab who does large format processing.
Sorry to go on so long here, but the format decision is really important. Staying with 120 roll film leads me to encourage you to look serious at the Fuji platform. There were thousands built, and at any given time on eBay, there are at least a half dozen or more of just the 690 with 90mm models. There are often two or three of the GSW models with the 65mm lens (fixed). Plus an occasional real early model with the interchangable lenses. If you are not a real gear guy who can deal with issues, I would step up for III series with a low shutter count. Most of the later cameras have a shutter actuation counter.
Be very cautious on eBay. I teach eBay classes, so I stay quite up on the auction site. There's an increasing amount of fraud sneaking into the system. Look for long term and consistent stream of 99+ % feedback and question sellers til you're satisfied if you go that way.
I've enjoyed every Fujica Fuji that I have ever owned including the GA645Zi. But I have to say the GA645Zi was not a camera that I regarded as reliable as most of the other models. I have seen a lot more Zi's with problems, than any other Fuji, other than the poor bellows of the GS645 folding camera.
Good luck
kuzano
Veteran
Sorry --- forgot the image attachment
Sorry --- forgot the image attachment
Here it is:
Sorry --- forgot the image attachment
Here it is:
kuzano
Veteran
fidget said:
NOT a rangefinder... The GS645W is scale focus. Reason being the large depth of field offered by the wide angle glass. This is the only Fuji in the line that is NOT a rangefinder.
kuzano
Veteran
Mamiya 6 and 7 system prices outrageous
Mamiya 6 and 7 system prices outrageous
(Personal opinion - please accept as that alone). At one time I was truly interested in a Mamiya 6 and then a 7. I am an ardent fan of Mamiya, having shot tons of their SLR offerings and bought and sold many of their press camerals.. Super 23, Universal, and the cameras they made for Polaroid... the 600SE. I think they have lenses to match Carl Zeiss, Schneider, etc.
With that in mind, I find the Mamiya 6 and 7 series cameras to be enter cult phase and HUGELY overpriced for the results delivered. I've talked with a lot of users of the platform and it is really not superior to many systems delivering equal results for less money.
Mamiya 6 and 7 system prices outrageous
(Personal opinion - please accept as that alone). At one time I was truly interested in a Mamiya 6 and then a 7. I am an ardent fan of Mamiya, having shot tons of their SLR offerings and bought and sold many of their press camerals.. Super 23, Universal, and the cameras they made for Polaroid... the 600SE. I think they have lenses to match Carl Zeiss, Schneider, etc.
With that in mind, I find the Mamiya 6 and 7 series cameras to be enter cult phase and HUGELY overpriced for the results delivered. I've talked with a lot of users of the platform and it is really not superior to many systems delivering equal results for less money.
harycover
Newbie
Oh, thank you Kuzano for this in depth analysis
I've read it twice to make sure I got everything (also english is not my first language
)
As I said, I already own some SLRs, I started by digitals and when I made some progress in photography I bought some film SLRs and many lenses giving me full control over composition, thus as you said, going for 6x4.5 doesn't make a huge difference, I'm a landscapes lover and want to keep the "perfect negative" of some places I've been to, to share and print as large as I can
I'm used to stitching pics for panos, however my experience lead me to prefer the "all the scene in one shot" when I can do it
I'll look seriously at the fuji GSW series...
Thanks again
I've read it twice to make sure I got everything (also english is not my first language
)As I said, I already own some SLRs, I started by digitals and when I made some progress in photography I bought some film SLRs and many lenses giving me full control over composition, thus as you said, going for 6x4.5 doesn't make a huge difference, I'm a landscapes lover and want to keep the "perfect negative" of some places I've been to, to share and print as large as I can
I'm used to stitching pics for panos, however my experience lead me to prefer the "all the scene in one shot" when I can do it
I'll look seriously at the fuji GSW series...
Thanks again
Tuolumne
Veteran
harycover said:Tuolumne : thank you for advice, sounds very interesting, are you sure of the name of the camera ? my google search on "GW645zi" returns completely blank !
Do you have any link to it ?
Ok, found it, this is not the GW645zi but the GA645zi
Sorry, my mistake. It is the GA645zi. Link to manual is here:
http://www.butkus.org/chinon/fujica/fujifilm_ga645zi/fujifilm_ga645zi.htm
/T
aizan
Veteran
the gsw690ii is within your price range at about $700, while the gsw690iii goes for around $1200-1400. i would also consider the gw690iii, which costs less and has a longer lens ($900, 40mm equivalent), and the pentax 67, which is the best field camera in 6x7 and has interchangeable lenses.
Tuolumne
Veteran
Fortunately I have never had any problems with my GA645Zi but YMMV. Mine was a rarely used backup of a professional photographer who went all digital. One of the things I like about 645 format is that a 220 roll gives you 33 exposures, almost as many as a 35mm format, but with a much larger negative. I hate changing the damn rolls all the time. Also, I find that once you step up to a medium format negative, there is much less difference in quality among the different medium format sizes than between 35mm and even the smallest medium format, 645.
/T
/T
Tuolumne
Veteran
One of the reasons I like the 645 is because it is small and light. Certainly as light or lighter than an M3 with a fast lens.
/T
/T
raid
Dad Photographer
I have a 20x30 print from this image:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/pho...5&ppuser=3565&sortby=v&sorttime=9999&way=desc
I used the GL690 and the 100mm AE lens with Velvia 50. The lens is very sharp. In the 20x30 print I can see details in the town [Silverton].
The following is an image taken with a Rolleflex 2.8D:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/pho...5&ppuser=3565&sortby=v&sorttime=9999&way=desc
In several of my trips, I used both cameras side by side. The Fuji gave me 6x9 transparencies while the Rollei gave me 6x6 transparencies.
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/pho...5&ppuser=3565&sortby=v&sorttime=9999&way=desc
I used the GL690 and the 100mm AE lens with Velvia 50. The lens is very sharp. In the 20x30 print I can see details in the town [Silverton].
The following is an image taken with a Rolleflex 2.8D:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/pho...5&ppuser=3565&sortby=v&sorttime=9999&way=desc
In several of my trips, I used both cameras side by side. The Fuji gave me 6x9 transparencies while the Rollei gave me 6x6 transparencies.
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S
Simon Larbalestier
Guest
A vote for the GSW 690 II - i've just been working with mine in Cambodia along with two Xpans. Certainly bulky but very easy to work with - although with a max aperture of F5.6 once you start to add filters such as an orange, a tripod becomes essential.
David Goldfarb
Well-known
There are 4x5" cameras that are around 2-3 lbs, like the Gowland PocketView, Toho Shimo, Ikeda Anba, and the new Chamonix. You can use sheet film, Readyloads or Quickloads, or rollfilm backs of various formats, plus you get camera movements (tilt, swing, rise/fall, shift) which are very handy for landscapes, and being lightweight cameras, they don't require huge tripods. I used to have a 4x5" Gowland, and I would carry it in the side pocket of my ScopePak when I went birding for landscapes and macros in between bird photo ops. Look up Kerry Thalmann's website for some good articles on LF cameras and lenses for backpacking.
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venchka
Veteran
What David said. And learn how to use transparency material. Much nicer than negatives I think. Color anyway.
If not, then give serious thought to a Pentax 6x7 body with mirror lock up and prism and the Pentax SMC 55mm lens for $800 or less. The body takes 120 or 220. If you like it and want to expand, you can add tubes for close ups and other lenses for a different look. If you want a wider perspective, the Pentax 45mm lens is really nice and gives you twice the film area of the Hasselblad Xpan with the same 45mm horizontal perspective. By the way, Pentax lenses are faster than the Fuji RF lenses I think. My 105mm is 1:2.4 and my 150mm is 1:2.8.
When I was younger and studpider I backpacked with a Pentax 6x7 & 105mm lens to 12,400 feet in Colorado. It wasn't bad at all.
If not, then give serious thought to a Pentax 6x7 body with mirror lock up and prism and the Pentax SMC 55mm lens for $800 or less. The body takes 120 or 220. If you like it and want to expand, you can add tubes for close ups and other lenses for a different look. If you want a wider perspective, the Pentax 45mm lens is really nice and gives you twice the film area of the Hasselblad Xpan with the same 45mm horizontal perspective. By the way, Pentax lenses are faster than the Fuji RF lenses I think. My 105mm is 1:2.4 and my 150mm is 1:2.8.
When I was younger and studpider I backpacked with a Pentax 6x7 & 105mm lens to 12,400 feet in Colorado. It wasn't bad at all.
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
Pitxu said:
... And also too bad there's no MF folder with let's say 45mm lens. Come to think of it, why not? it would've made a perfect landscape *and* street photography.
kuzano
Veteran
Here is an example... Gowland Pocket Calumet
Here is an example... Gowland Pocket Calumet
Here are some pics of a Gowland Pocket 4X5 branded for Calumet. This shows how it breaks down for packing. In fact, this camera weighs about the same as my Fuji G690. The advantages. Movements for focus and perspective control. Multiple film formats with all the variations of 120 roll film (w appropriate backs) and large format 4X5. This is about as light as it gets for as many benefits as such a system offers.
The lens on this camera is a 127mm Mamiya from a Polaroid 600SE, so it will cover somewhere between 6X12 and large format, but not full 4X5. OTOH, if you go to large format, this camera will take lenses from 47 (recessed board) to almost 300mm.
Here is an example... Gowland Pocket Calumet
David Goldfarb said:
Here are some pics of a Gowland Pocket 4X5 branded for Calumet. This shows how it breaks down for packing. In fact, this camera weighs about the same as my Fuji G690. The advantages. Movements for focus and perspective control. Multiple film formats with all the variations of 120 roll film (w appropriate backs) and large format 4X5. This is about as light as it gets for as many benefits as such a system offers.
The lens on this camera is a 127mm Mamiya from a Polaroid 600SE, so it will cover somewhere between 6X12 and large format, but not full 4X5. OTOH, if you go to large format, this camera will take lenses from 47 (recessed board) to almost 300mm.
Bryce
Well-known
Can that large format setup be had for $800?
My solution to a medium format, backpack friendly, cost effective, wide angle camera was a Brooks Veriwide. Basically the same idea as a Graflex XLSW, same lens (Schneider 47mm F/8 or F/5.6) but slightly different body and back by Mamiya.
It is not a rangefinder, but quite easy to scale focus. Not really hand holdable, since there is no shutter button- only a socket for a cable release and a little release tab on the lens where you can't reach when trying to shoot.
The optics are very good, if slow. Only complaint about image quality is that light falloff is significant, over a stop at the corners. Getting an appropriate center filter would be necessary for slide film.
The really good part? The angle of view is about like a 21mm lens on 35mm, so about as wide as you go in medium format short of a 6x12 camera.
Would I recommend it? Depends. The camera is tripod bound, period. Can you live with that? And the center filter issue could be a major one if you shoot transparecies. I don't, shot maybe 2 rolls of it; the results are fine with B+W because the film has enough latitude to let me correct when enlarging or just live with the "burned" edges.
There are some examples in my gallery, under "Aboard the Servant". Of course you'd need to see sizable prints to really appreciate image quality.
Best, what ever route you take!
My solution to a medium format, backpack friendly, cost effective, wide angle camera was a Brooks Veriwide. Basically the same idea as a Graflex XLSW, same lens (Schneider 47mm F/8 or F/5.6) but slightly different body and back by Mamiya.
It is not a rangefinder, but quite easy to scale focus. Not really hand holdable, since there is no shutter button- only a socket for a cable release and a little release tab on the lens where you can't reach when trying to shoot.
The optics are very good, if slow. Only complaint about image quality is that light falloff is significant, over a stop at the corners. Getting an appropriate center filter would be necessary for slide film.
The really good part? The angle of view is about like a 21mm lens on 35mm, so about as wide as you go in medium format short of a 6x12 camera.
Would I recommend it? Depends. The camera is tripod bound, period. Can you live with that? And the center filter issue could be a major one if you shoot transparecies. I don't, shot maybe 2 rolls of it; the results are fine with B+W because the film has enough latitude to let me correct when enlarging or just live with the "burned" edges.
There are some examples in my gallery, under "Aboard the Servant". Of course you'd need to see sizable prints to really appreciate image quality.
Best, what ever route you take!
kuzano
Veteran
You talkin to me....You TALKIN to me????
You talkin to me....You TALKIN to me????
If you are asking about my Calumet Gowland Pocket, Yes... well under $800.
1)The camera... eBay-poor auction with poor pics closing on Sunday... Under $200
Looks like may not be used at all.
2) Calumet Caltar 150mm lens in Copal Shutter. eBay poor auction, mispelled both Calumet (Calument) and Caltar (Calstar), poor pictures, auction close on Sunday. Paid $165. Like new, good shutter function
3) Roll film back $60... poor eBay auction, poorly presented, bad closing time, works good
4) Bogen 3035 tripod and Bogen (Manfrotto) 3055 Ball Head... $41, another auction site.
5) Virtually new Kodak Readyload... new style with film pressure plate and grooves for Graflok back... $75 BIN from a photo shop on eBay... while other ready loads were selling for over $100???
What are we up to.....$540 approx. I think I could still be shooting 6X17 for less than $1000 total with one of those 6X17 backs that fit under the Graflok tabs on the Calumet/Gowland Pocket. All I have to do is buy film (Fuji Quickload 4X5), or Fujichrome 120 roll film... and get shooting.
Yeah, I'm pleased. I guess the $$$ shock is going to come at processing time... mebbe... mebbe not.
I still have the G690 for a backup plan.
You talkin to me....You TALKIN to me????
If you are asking about my Calumet Gowland Pocket, Yes... well under $800.
1)The camera... eBay-poor auction with poor pics closing on Sunday... Under $200
Looks like may not be used at all.
2) Calumet Caltar 150mm lens in Copal Shutter. eBay poor auction, mispelled both Calumet (Calument) and Caltar (Calstar), poor pictures, auction close on Sunday. Paid $165. Like new, good shutter function
3) Roll film back $60... poor eBay auction, poorly presented, bad closing time, works good
4) Bogen 3035 tripod and Bogen (Manfrotto) 3055 Ball Head... $41, another auction site.
5) Virtually new Kodak Readyload... new style with film pressure plate and grooves for Graflok back... $75 BIN from a photo shop on eBay... while other ready loads were selling for over $100???
What are we up to.....$540 approx. I think I could still be shooting 6X17 for less than $1000 total with one of those 6X17 backs that fit under the Graflok tabs on the Calumet/Gowland Pocket. All I have to do is buy film (Fuji Quickload 4X5), or Fujichrome 120 roll film... and get shooting.
Yeah, I'm pleased. I guess the $$$ shock is going to come at processing time... mebbe... mebbe not.
I still have the G690 for a backup plan.
Bryce
Well-known
Kuzano-
Good shopping on your part!
I haven't looked at LF gear for sale on the auction place in a couple of years...
Anyway, I'd have guessed more money than that.
Good shopping on your part!
I haven't looked at LF gear for sale on the auction place in a couple of years...
Anyway, I'd have guessed more money than that.