Medium format in the 21st Century

[hepcat]

Well... I did it... I've decided to move into the 21st Century with my medium format gear... I've put all of my Hasselblad V series gear up for sale, and found a near-new condition Mamiya 645AFDii with a couple of film backs, a new Polaroid back, two AF lenses (45mm and 80mm) and a 150 N manual focus at a really good price.

I'm going to give a full electronic 645 camera a try with film. My thought was that used digital backs for it are coming down into the range of the common man's ability to buy them now, so I'll shoot it with film for the time being and if a digital back happens to come along... well I'll give that a try too.

Anybody got any thoughts you'd like to share?

 

[BLKRCAT]

why not contax?

 

[hepcat]

why not contax?

'cause I bought the whole Mamiya kit for about half the asking price of a used Contax 645 body alone.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

I would love to have old simple, fully manual Hasselblad with affordable digital back on it.
Small digital back with SLR size and capacity battery and simple exposure indicator, Bessa R,T style on the top of the digital back.
This will be something exciting and pleasing for me in 21C.

 

[BLKRCAT]

'cause I bought the whole Mamiya kit for about half the asking price of a used Contax 645 body alone.

Oh my mistake then. I thought that a newer mamiya setup wouldn't be that cheap compared to contax.

Have fun with it. I've actually never shot 645. 6x6 and 6x7 are my go to formats when Im dealing with mf.

 

[hepcat]

I would love to have old simple, fully manual Hasselblad with affordable digital back on it.
Small digital back with SLR size and capacity battery and simple exposure indicator, Bessa R,T style on the top of the digital back.
This will be something exciting and pleasing for me in 21C.

I waited YEARS for that to happen... and it hasn't happened yet, nor does it look likely that it will... and I'm not willing to spend half what my house and twice what my car is worth for a Hasselblad digital back, and much as I enjoyed using Hasselblad over the past thirty years... hence my defection. And the very first decent 16mp "V" digital backs are just now coming on the market... at two and three times the cost of the same back in 645. I'm not willing to pay those prices, nor am I willing to wait any more.

I was looking at a low-image-count Leaf 28mp 645 back that I probably could have gotten for around $2500. It was ten year old technology though.

 

[hepcat]

Oh my mistake then. I thought that a newer mamiya setup wouldn't be that cheap compared to contax.

Have fun with it. I've actually never shot 645. 6x6 and 6x7 are my go to formats when Im dealing with mf.

No problem... I was actually surprised when I saw the Mamiya prices too. What really surprised me was that the 645AFDii was only a couple of hundred more for the outfit than some of the 645 Pro TL outfits I saw.

I've always shot 6x6 and never seriously considered 645 either, but for what I have invested in the new stuff, I thought why not give it a try?

 

[ellisson]

This is an interesting set up, Hepcat. Having the digital option, even if in the future, is very nice. The digital backs seem to have a wide price range depending on the megapixel capability. Hopefully the prices will come down sooner than later!

 

[Austintatious]

Sounds like a very cool kit. As for the 645 format, it is almost the same ratio as a 35mm
film negitive, 3x2. I have a good old Mamiya 6451000 I should use more often, but it is
such a BEAST 😀

 

[Range-rover]

I think you made a great choice, the Mamiya is a great system, I don't use film cameras
any more but if I wanted to get back into film I would get into Medium Format.

 

[Chromacomaphoto]

Seems like a safe step forward with options. What are the realistic ISO limitations of the digital backs for your camera (should you be lucky to find one soon at a fair price) ? I was just wondering how low-light friendly they are as I had always assumed that perhaps they weren't. Suppose you could still use a film back in such a situation though right?

 

[hepcat]

This is an interesting set up, Hepcat. Having the digital option, even if in the future, is very nice. The digital backs seem to have a wide price range depending on the megapixel capability. Hopefully the prices will come down sooner than later!

I certainly don't need anything much more than 20mp tops... a Leaf 28mp would be nice and was what I was looking at for $2500.

Sounds like a very cool kit. As for the 645 format, it is almost the same ratio as a 35mm
film negitive, 3x2. I have a good old Mamiya 6451000 I should use more often, but it is
such a BEAST 😀

I'm coming from years of shooting Hassy, and Mamiya C330s before that, so the 645s aren't a problem. 😀

I think you made a great choice, the Mamiya is a great system, I don't use film cameras
any more but if I wanted to get back into film I would get into Medium Format.

Thanks... I don't shoot a lot of medium format any more, but it just doesn't seem right to be without the medium format option. And to have the option later of medium format digital just seemed like a good move.

Seems like a safe step forward with options. What are the realistic ISO limitations of the digital backs for your camera (should you be lucky to find one soon at a fair price) ? I was just wondering how low-light friendly they are as I had always assumed that perhaps they weren't. Suppose you could still use a film back in such a situation though right?

Most of the older technology digital backs coming on the market now are just fine up to about ISO 400. Truth to tell, I shoot digital like film anyway, and I seldom push any of my cameras past ISO 640. If I need more light, I open up (I like my large aperture lenses) or use a tripod, or use other means to extend the shooting range as necessary. And frankly, that's what balancing flash is all about. Medium format isn't a really the best tool for doing candid street work or trying to do the proverbial black cats in coal bins anyway. 😉

 

[Spanik]

Moving into the 20-th century you mean... (yeah, technically 2005 for the afdii)

Love the Mamiya 645 series (got 2x ProTL, Super, J and a dozen lenses) but I would have kept the Hasselblad as digital backs for them turn up more frequently and cheaper than for a Mamiya. The Mamiya systems keeps going into the PhaseOne system and most photographers upgrade instead of turning their backs into the second hand market.

Iso performance of those old backs is indeed a problem. I use 400 iso slide film right now and it can be taxing at times. The 80/1.9 is the brightest you can get and frankly I hardly use it as f/1.9 gives a too shallow dof to be of any use to me. And the 80/2.8 is about half the weight.

 

[hepcat]

Moving into the 20-th century you mean... (yeah, technically 2005 for the afdii)

Love the Mamiya 645 series (got 2x ProTL, Super, J and a dozen lenses) but I would have kept the Hasselblad as digital backs for them turn up more frequently and cheaper than for a Mamiya. The Mamiya systems keeps going into the PhaseOne system and most photographers upgrade instead of turning their backs into the second hand market.

Iso performance of those old backs is indeed a problem. I use 400 iso slide film right now and it can be taxing at times. The 80/1.9 is the brightest you can get and frankly I hardly use it as f/1.9 gives a too shallow dof to be of any use to me. And the 80/2.8 is about half the weight.

Compared to the 1948 design of the 500 bodies, the Mamiya AFDii is truly 21st century! <grin> Although I'm going to miss the Hassy. I've shot them for nearly 30 years now, so they're "comfortable."

Boy, I sure haven't found the Hassy V digital backs to be more plentiful or less expensive. I've actually kind of given up on them because there are so few of them and even the original 16mp backs are holding their value. of course, I'm looking for an un-tethered back. The tethered backs are less than a grand now... but I don't shoot anything where that would work well for me.

 

[KM-25]

I waited YEARS for that to happen... and it hasn't happened yet, nor does it look likely that it will... and I'm not willing to spend half what my house and twice what my car is worth for a Hasselblad digital back, and much as I enjoyed using Hasselblad over the past thirty years... hence my defection. And the very first decent 16mp "V" digital backs are just now coming on the market... at two and three times the cost of the same back in 645. I'm not willing to pay those prices, nor am I willing to wait any more.

Huh...interesting, you do know that Hasselblad Bron ran a special on the fantastic CFV50c back, right? I mean, when one considers how much Hasselblad gear cost when new for a great many years, spending just $9,995.00 to have a killer 50MP digital option to add to all those film backs, well that is chump change sir.

I had my large system in Hasselblad V before the 50c back came out, two 501CM's, a 500ELX for aerials, 9 lenses, 10 A-12 backs, a 24 exposure back, you name it. Now I just stuff the 50c back in the kit along with a couple of A-12 backs and BAM!, I am really off and running. Battery life is awesome too since it is only needed for the back, not the camera body.

And by the end of this ski season, the thing will have already paid it self off, truly a bargain to make the best camera system ever made even better.

To each his own I guess....

 

[Trius]

Hope this doesn't sound like a stupid question, and it really is serious ..

What does a medium format back offer that is truly necessary or required by clients? I'm not saying it doesn't or can't ... it's just that the quality of top end "full frame" sensors is pretty astonishing.

What are the actual gains?

I really shouldn't ask since I'm liable to seek out some prints from MF sensors and be ruined for anything less. Not even a possibility with my budget unless I win a substantial lottery!

 

[KM-25]

Hope this doesn't sound like a stupid question, and it really is serious ..

What does a medium format back offer that is truly necessary or required by clients? I'm not saying it doesn't or can't ... it's just that the quality of top end "full frame" sensors is pretty astonishing.

What are the actual gains?

I really shouldn't ask since I'm liable to seek out some prints from MF sensors and be ruined for anything less. Not even a possibility with my budget unless I win a substantial lottery!

For me it was less about what it offered over my D810 and more about what it allowed me to do in the field in terms of workflow. For example, one of my biggest clients is the local ski area which happens to be one of the best in the world and has a pretty big budget for marketing. So they use my images in size ranges that are for web / social to huge 30-40 foot wide murals in ticket offices, airport banners at Denver International, etc.

The issue I have always had is that I have needed to carry a D750 / D810 in addition to a MF camera while shooting black and white film for fine art. So add one of those digital Nikons to my Hasselblad system and you are talking a lot of weight and a rather fragmented workflow.

Now with the digital back I am just carrying the Hasselblad system when out doing the scenic work that they need and can swap between digital and film backs in seconds, a really intuitive and productive workflow.

As for the image quality gains over the Nikons, the color and the tonality is better out of the 50MP digital back VS my Nikon D810. They take very little work in post and make *huge* stitched files. Also, even though the dynamic range on paper is better with the D810, the way it falls into place with the CFV50c back is better overall, a more natural range of tones and again, fabulous color.

It's no different than film in terms of formats, the larger sensor just takes in and displays light better, the files are quite beautiful.

 

[Range-rover]

That's one beautiful picture!

 

[nlubis]

Getting into a MFD has also crossed my mind.
hepcat and others,
How about the Pentax 645D? I see them for $2500-30000. This seems to be a great path to get there. Body (technology) is only a couple of years old.

 

[hepcat]

Huh...interesting, you do know that Hasselblad Bron ran a special on the fantastic CFV50c back, right? I mean, when one considers how much Hasselblad gear cost when new for a great many years, spending just $9,995.00 to have a killer 50MP digital option to add to all those film backs, well that is chump change sir.

To each his own I guess....

Although I understand your perspective, the term "chump change," sir is relative. My car is worth about $12,000.

Hope this doesn't sound like a stupid question, and it really is serious ..

What does a medium format back offer that is truly necessary or required by clients? I'm not saying it doesn't or can't ... it's just that the quality of top end "full frame" sensors is pretty astonishing.

What are the actual gains?

The gains, for me, would be the same gains one gets shooting medium format film over 35mm. It just looks different.

Getting into a MFD has also crossed my mind.
hepcat and others,
How about the Pentax 645D? I see them for $2500-30000. This seems to be a great path to get there. Body (technology) is only a couple of years old.

I thought seriously about the Pentax 645D as well, but I wanted to shoot both film and digital. Pentax doesn't have interchangeable backs. I've never shot one, so I can't give you an definitive answers about it.