Modification to Leica M framelines

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damien.murphy

Damien
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This is me thinking out loud, so if the below is too sacrilegious to you, the back button on your browser may be a good option :)

My curiousity pertains to the modification of Leica M framelines;

1. Is it possible to have a 40mm frameline added to a 0.72 mag viewfinder, and

2. Is it possible to have framelines removed from a 0.72 mag viewfinder.

I haven't been able to find much other than passing comment, but believe the latter is possible, but I have no idea if the former is.

The above, by the way, sprung from some lazy daydreaming about what I would really like in a 2nd M body. This may or may not be something that comes to fruition, but if both the above were possible, I could potentially seeing myself tracking down a black M4-2/ M4-P beater to modify so.

Even if it is only possible to remove framelines, I would personally find the idea of a beater-camera with just 28mm/ 35mm/ 75mm framelines appealing, to pair with an orthodox M3 (&50mm) when I want to mix it up a little. Also it would be nice to have a camera body that would not inspire baby-ing :)
 
CNNY said:
Without any irreversible modification, if you put black tape over the viewfinder illumination window, all framelines are gone. No beater needed.
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Thanks for clearing that up for me, but I would prefer framelines, specifically 28mm/ 35mm/ 40mm/ 75mm, thus my query :)
 
The frame mask is a thin metal dingus under the top cover at the front of the rangefinder. It might be possible to fabricate a mask with the lines you want.
BUT! You would need to figure out the displacement for the new frame.
AND! any unevenness in the edges you cut will be GINORMUS through the finder.
Also the 28 frame may not be possible with a .72 finder, the magnification won't allow it. As I recall(not to clearly) the 28 needs the .58 mag.
 
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Landshark said:
The frame mask is a thin metal dingus under the top cover at the front of the rangefinder. It might be possible to fabricate a mask with the lines you want.
BUT! You would need to figure out the displacement for the new frame.
AND! any unevenness in the edges you cut will be GINORMUS through the finder.
Click to expand...

Interesting.. I wonder if anyone knows whether any of the Leica-whisperers (DAG, Sherry, etc) have offered such a service previously. I'm sure it is quite a rare modification, and possibly prohibitively expensive..
 
Forget the 28mm framelines. They get hidden in the edges of the viewfinder. The whole window is a 28mm viewfinder.
Seems like 40mm would be the outside edges of the 50mm framelines, no? Or the inside edges of the 35mm frame? Or close enough in either case. If you want close framing use an SLR.
That leaves 75mm. 90mm framelines would yield a nice tight crop of the 75mm FOV.

From our host's wonderful Leica information pages:

The M4-P adds to the M4-2 features by adding a six position finder for 28/35/50/75/90/135 lenses by pairing the 35 & 135 frames, the 50 & 75 frames, and the 90 & 28 frames. Unfortunately the new finder layout is rather cluttered visually and the 28 frame can't easily be seen by people wearing glasses. If you are a Nikon Rangefinder fan, note that Leica took only 23 years to equal the Nikon SP's six built in framelines. Leica makes haste slowly. The M4-P's .72 magnification six brightline finder remains the standard Leica M6 finder to this day.
Cameraquest
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Buy a M4-P and use it as is.
 
I've had the top cover off my Fuji GW690II and it's the same as mentioned above with the thin metal dingus. I know for a fact, after seeing that, I would never attempt the mod you're talking about.

Just my thoughts. There's got to be a better way.
 
I remember someone somewhere sometime posting an article about how they masked off half of the framelines in their M by applying slim strips of insulation tape (or a something similar) to the frameline mask. I do not recall where that was written, but at least that is possible in theory.
 
venchka said:
Buy a M4-P and use it as is.
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Ok.. time to clarify. My initial post and queries were the result of my emergent thoughts from a number of needs. These are:

- Only the framelines I wish to use the camera for. I've had an M6, and do not care for the cluttered finder, nor unused framelines.

- This would be a 2nd body, and thus I would only use it for 28mm/ 35mm/ 75mm.

- 40mm would be nice too though, thus the first point of my query. I could live without this (and the resultant cluttered finder), but it would be nice to know if it was possible.

- I do not wish to imagine framelines ie 40mm in a typical 0.72-type finder. All the commentary in the world about the inaccuracy of framelines will not change this desire on my part.

- These modifications would complete (at this point) a fantasy M that is in my head. Indulge me :)

Pirate said:
I've had the top cover off my Fuji GW690II and it's the same as mentioned above with the thin metal dingus. I know for a fact, after seeing that, I would never attempt the mod you're talking about.

Just my thoughts. There's got to be a better way.
Click to expand...

I believe you, and would never undertake the work myself. Quite happy to outsource to the expert technicians :)

efix said:
I remember someone somewhere sometime posting an article about how they masked off half of the framelines in their M by applying slim strips of insulation tape (or a something similar) to the frameline mask. I do not recall where that was written, but at least that is possible in theory.
Click to expand...

Yes, I seem to recall similar passing comments on threads I read in the past that indicate masking off framelines is possible. I hope I wasn't imagining things.
 
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35mm & 75mm framelines would be nice. If you use 35 & 75 lenses a lot.
A pair of M4-P bodies. One with 35mm and the other with 75mm lines and lenses to match would make an awesome pair.
A pair of M5 bodies with those framelines would be even better.
 
venchka said:
35mm & 75mm framelines would be nice. If you use 35 & 75 lenses a lot.
A pair of M4-P bodies. One with 35mm and the other with 75mm lines and lenses to match would make an awesome pair.
A pair of M5 bodies with those framelines would be even better.
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I agree, 35 & 75 would be nice. I've no problem with changing lenses, so only require the one body. Also, as an M3 owner, I am acutely aware of the potential for build-up of multiple M-bodies, and best to keep it to two at the most :)

Thinking the same re: M5, just for the meter alone, but a beater M4-X suits my wallet better, given the prices of M5's these days..
 
Interesting!

Interesting!

Hi, on Rich Cuttler´s epson RD1s website he shows how to get some focal length framelines by modifying one of the masks.
It´s made by drilling tiny holes on one mask.
This also can be made from 0 by using those laser cutters on a brass lam following the exact pattern of the basic mask.

It wold be nice to get FL for 40mm lens on my m8!

bye!
 
You can have the 28/75 frames installed in a pre-M4P. You can also have someone like DAG block certain frames in later models (take out/block the 75 in a M4P or later). Leica's a la Carte offers selected framelines on some models, such as 35/50/90 on Mp's etc - but at a price!
As for the 40 mm framelines. You would have to make up a mask and probably replace the 50 frame with the new mask. These are thin stainlee steel, laser cut masks. Of course they are not straight forward, there are holes cut in the for fasteners etc.
I agree that a 2 body kit with a 0.58 for 35 only and a 0.85 for the 75 only would be nice. However. I find myself using my 75's on Bessa R3's instead, as it has a free standing 75 mm frame. No confusing 50/75 combination - and considerably cheaper than custom a la Carte Mp's anyway.
As for the 40's - I file down the claw to give me 35 frames and use the inside of the 35 frame as a guide - close enough for me.
 
Damien I think your only option is to sell everything you have, get a loan from the bank, and get 2 a la carte MP's from Leica... I'm sure your friendly Irish bank manager will understand :p
 
elmer3.5 said:
Hi, on Rich Cuttler´s epson RD1s website he shows how to get some focal length framelines by modifying one of the masks.
It´s made by drilling tiny holes on one mask.
This also can be made from 0 by using those laser cutters on a brass lam following the exact pattern of the basic mask.

It wold be nice to get FL for 40mm lens on my m8!

bye!
Click to expand...

Interesting.. must check that out. A 40mm frameline in a Leica M body would be nice alright. I gravitate between a 50 and a 35 for most of my shooting, and 40mm on my Rollei 35 has been nice.

Tom A said:
You can have the 28/75 frames installed in a pre-M4P. You can also have someone like DAG block certain frames in later models (take out/block the 75 in a M4P or later). Leica's a la Carte offers selected framelines on some models, such as 35/50/90 on Mp's etc - but at a price!
As for the 40 mm framelines. You would have to make up a mask and probably replace the 50 frame with the new mask. These are thin stainlee steel, laser cut masks. Of course they are not straight forward, there are holes cut in the for fasteners etc.
I agree that a 2 body kit with a 0.58 for 35 only and a 0.85 for the 75 only would be nice. However. I find myself using my 75's on Bessa R3's instead, as it has a free standing 75 mm frame. No confusing 50/75 combination - and considerably cheaper than custom a la Carte Mp's anyway.
As for the 40's - I file down the claw to give me 35 frames and use the inside of the 35 frame as a guide - close enough for me.
Click to expand...

Hmm.. yes, Leica do charge a pretty penny :)

Using an M4-P body as the baseline would be good, and masking out the 50mm, 90mm and 135mm framelines would leave a nice uncluttered pair of 28/35/75 with each on appearing on its own when selected.

I'm not a glasses wearer, so having the wider of the three framelines (28mm & 35mm) on a 0.72 mag body would not be a personal problem, with the 75 still being somewhat decent-sized to be useable.
 
There was a hack to a 0.58 Hexar finder here a short while ago (last few weeks, have a look on the Hexar forum) and I recall somebody having the framelines on an M altered, but it required laser cutting on a very small and thin metal sheet and it wasn't anywhere near simple. No word on accuracy.


What's with all the modifying and hacking lately? :headshake:
 
damien.murphy said:
Lol, Irish bank managers seem to have gotten awfully coy of late.. I wonder why.. :)
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Really it seems like only yesterday that they were offering us 115% morgages at 10x our yearly income.

Back to the point I'll keep an eye on this as I would love a less cluttered M6 viewfinder, M2 style.
 
Soooo interested in that! In one or two years, I’ll upgrade, I know that. Even if I’m telling me right now, that my Bessa R is enough... ;)
I’m so in love with 40mm, and with „Ms“, but you don’t get it together... And no, I don’t want to use the 35 window...
 
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