More Urbex Criminal and Dangerous Behavior

and besides if you dont like what is going on, on your street or where you live do something about it. i come here for photography not whining.
 
If the liquor store is abandoned and theres still stuff on the shelf, I think it's o.k. to help youself to a drink. What I think is you just carry the argument to an extreme. I don't think anyone on this forum is for crack houses, starting fires, stealing, destroying property but you my friend are wound a little to tight. My guess is you aren't very tolerant of much.
 
Leigh Youdale said:
I think what I'm gaining from this is a sense that Bill is fairly right wing and a champion of "law and order".
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I've never made a secret of it.

And if any of you are silly enough to visit any property he owned, I bet he's got a gun and would shoot you without a second thought.
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You're wrong. I would definitely think twice.

But I also wonder about his position on all the military people whom he so admires and what he thinks of the atrocities many of them have been involved in in the different theatres they've been sent to - Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan? Are the participants also not criminals and should face the consequences of their crimes against humanity?
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If some of them are criminals, they should face the consequences of their actions. I have no problem with that. What has that to do with criminal trespass to take photos?

How about it, Bill? You can't have it both ways.
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What ways? I don't even follow your logic.
 
bmattock said:
So if a city is overwhelmed with crime. . . .
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Dear Bill,

...maybe there are too many stupid laws on the statute book, or there is an absurd degree of social inequality, or maybe the vast majority of people don't care QUITE as much about Laura Norder as they pretend they do, or they'd pay for more cops.

Cheers,

R.
 
bmattock said:
It was your logic that enabled me to do so. You said it was OK for you to trespass because the police were too busy to deal with you. If that's true, then anything the police are too busy to deal with must also be OK. Not my logic, bubba, yours.
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I never said that, someone else did. You are the one has been continually making ridiculous comparisons and then finding it ironic/funny when someone points out how absurd they are. What do you expect?
 
yea i am. but this forum is about photography. not about how much you dislike people and what they do. try google maybe youll find a forum for that kind of thing.....
 
climbing_vine said:
OK , if you agree that attractive nuisance laws are good and necessary, then you do agree that property rights are not an absolute.

So, you were up on a soapbox before, not saying what you *really* believe. It's ok. Happens to all of us.

Have any interest in talking about where you think the lines can reasonably be drawn?
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I do think that property rights are absolute, up to the point in various state and federal laws regarding takings. There are also responsibilities that go with rights.

I did say before, fairly clearly ( I though), that I probably wouldn't prosecute a trespasser solely for a trespass, but it is still a crime. I'd draw the line at property destruction and theft, so if you just wander around and cause no harm, one can be forgiven one's trespass so to speak.

Remove copper wire, metal, etc, or torch the place on your way out? Time for a visit to the "Grey Bar Hotel"...

Part of the problem with what I *really* believe is that I'm not a terribly good writer, and what I write isn't always perfectly clear. I'm glad we've had this go on without name calling, and I apologize if my writing does wander into the "snarky" at times.
 
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Roger Hicks said:
...maybe there are too many stupid laws on the statute book, or maybe the vast majority of people don't care QUITE as much abiut Laura Norder as they pretend they do, or they'd pay for more cops.
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Now correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought you were actually a barrister at some point? Could you point me to the section, in UK law or US, where 'stupid laws' can be disregarded whilst still on the books at the whim of those who find them stupid?

I'm also fascinated by your 'she was asking for it' argument. If society didn't want a good shagging, she wouldn't have hiked her skirt so high, eh?
 
I agree with Bill on one count. Breaking whatever p... a...ed law because no-one respects it, does not instill respect for the legal system in general. Where will the disrespect stop? Ridding the legal system of laws that are not enforced, and by which no-one abides would help though.
 
bmattock said:
Now correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought you were actually a barrister at some point? Could you point me to the section, in UK law or US, where 'stupid laws' can be disregarded whilst still on the books at the whim of those who find them stupid?

I'm also fascinated by your 'she was asking for it' argument. If society didn't want a good shagging, she wouldn't have hiked her skirt so high, eh?
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As I said before... its a common tactic. Make everything illegal, and then when the police want to find something to arrest and prosecute someone on its easy.
 
Don't try that in Florida. If I have a legitimate right to be there, you don't, and I tell the cops that I thought you had a gun and I was in fear for my life, I can shoot you dead, no problem! Watch out where you point that zoom lens!

Private property is PRIVATE.
 
Al Kaplan said:
Don't try that in Florida. If I have a legitimate right to be there, you don't, and I tell the cops that I thought you had a gun and I was in fear for my life, I can shoot you dead, no problem! Watch out where you point that zoom lens!

Private property is PRIVATE.
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Do they have a lot of inner city slums, and multi story derlict and abandoned buildings in Miami?
 
bmattock said:
Now correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought you were actually a barrister at some point? Could you point me to the section, in UK law or US, where 'stupid laws' can be disregarded whilst still on the books at the whim of those who find them stupid?

I'm also fascinated by your 'she was asking for it' argument. If society didn't want a good shagging, she wouldn't have hiked her skirt so high, eh?
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Dear Bill,

No. I have Bar Part 1 exemption as a result of an LL.B. but have never qualified for the bar.

To quote the sometime Chief Constable of the Metropolitan Police, Sir Robert Mark (on certain drugs laws, as I recall, and quoting from memory), "Some laws are passed to satisfy public opinion, not to be enforced". Most half-sane policemen and lawyers -- a majority, despite the opinions of outsiders -- understand that statement perfectly. Those who take Laura Norder as a mistress are sometimes less realistic.

Where on earth did I advance the 'she was asking for it' argument? I have long been a fairly rigorous feminist, and I can only imagine adducing that argument in the most ironical sense -- which, I admit, I may conceivably have done, if you take my words far enough out of context -- but unless you can quote chapter and verse on this one, I'd appreciate a (fairly grovelling) apology.

Cheers,

Roger
 
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