Moving to Leica M Film, a good idea?

[David Hughes]

Hi,

I don't know what part of the world you live in but I might as well add my 2d worth.

Different M's show different frame-lines. I'd make my choice based on the lenses used with the M9.

And some M's are purely manual and as for 'best' it all depends who you ask. There's theory and practice and most are talking about elderly, second-hand cameras that may or may not have had a hard life and may or may not have been recently checked, repaired etc. Some swear by old cameras that have not been touched by a workshop technician on 50 years and then get a shock when a repair is needed and it comes back completely different.

Film; colour is cheaper, easily available and more labs will deal with it and do scans. Some scans are 1 or 2 megapixels and other are much larger at a price. You get prints anyway, perhaps, so the question is what do you want the scans for? 1 or 2 megapixels may well be larger than your monitor when on show with the M8 and 9's ones. (As they are.)

B&W is dear, mostly mail order but easy to deal with at home. You've a choice of traditional with or without scanning for the prints and you can get B&W that the colour labs will process etc with the colour film gunk. I'd advise you to try both and worry a little.

I hope this hasn't put you off. FWIW, I'm happy with my M2 and the local colour lab.

Regards, David

PS If you suspect it I doubt if you are crazy. The real nutters think they are normal; just don't vote for them...

 

[pepeguitarra]

Well, I made a decision. Please stop me....!

Well, I made a decision. Please stop me....!

Well, i decided to buy an M3 without meter. I really want to have the experience of shooting like 40 years ago with a nice camera. If after my first few rolls, I cannot show progress, I may get a light meter. Unfortunately, I have the Summicrons 50/2 & 35/2, but not the one with the goggles, so I cannot get close ups. Any advice on what films should I try and where to get them? Thanks, Pepe.

 

[Harry Lime]

Man, I am overwhelmed with so many answers. When I started thinking film, I was thinking in the M3 (the best Leica ever built, according to that guy!). It is all mechanical and it does not have a meter. My first camera did not have a meter, so, I estimated the speed by trial and error, until I became kind of good a that. However, it was more than 40 years ago. The price of the M3 is OK. They was I see it now I am leaning towards the M6 (no TTL, or is there an advantage to using flash - I usually do not use it, I have fast lenses). I think, I will first send the rolls to a lab until I am sure I am shooting it and enjoying it. Then, I may move to develop the film myself. Also, I would go B&W only. That is for now. I am going to keep an eye for a M6 (o.58 ? is that the best for using my favorite lens is the Summicron 35/2, or Canon 35/1.8, or Nikkor 35/1.8. Suggestions? THANKS.

The M3 does not have frame lines for a 35mm. It starts at 50mm (50/90/135)

If you want to shoot 35 and 50 go for an M2/M4/M4-P. These are meterless.
Or get an m6/M6ttl/M7/MP and leave the battery out.

 

[mfogiel]

For the film, I would start with something very easy for a walk around stock, like HP5. I did not say "Tri X" because HP5 dries flat, which is a substantial bonus if you scan. Else than that, when shot around EI 200-250 this film is gorgeous, and in some developers it looks good even at EI 640. For slower shooting, when you want more fine detail, you should try Adox Silvermax. In Europe I tend to buy from Macodirect, in the USA from Freestyle.

 

[pepeguitarra]

The M3 does not have frame lines for a 35mm. It starts at 50mm (50/90/135)

If you want to shoot 35 and 50 go for an M2/M4/M4-P. These are meterless.
Or get an m6/M6ttl/M7/MP and leave the battery out.

I know, but remember that I will be flying solo here. That is, I will be guessing the light, and guessing the 35mm frames. That is the beauty of it. It is an adventure.

 

[pepeguitarra]

For the film, I would start with something very easy for a walk around stock, like HP5. I did not say "Tri X" because HP5 dries flat, which is a substantial bonus if you scan. Else than that, when shot around EI 200-250 this film is gorgeous, and in some developers it looks good even at EI 640. For slower shooting, when you want more fine detail, you should try Adox Silvermax. In Europe I tend to buy from Macodirect, in the USA from Freestyle.

Thanks, I will probably shot one roll of B&W and one of color. Just to see what comes up from the lab. Then, I will make adjustments. Do I need filters other than UV for the B&W, what about the color shooting.

 

[Doug]

I know, but remember that I will be flying solo here. That is, I will be guessing the light, and guessing the 35mm frames. That is the beauty of it. It is an adventure.

If you tire of the framing adventure, there are "M3 versions" of the 35 Summaron f/2.8, 35 Summicron, and 35 Summilux with "goggles" to bring up a magnified 50mm frame specifically for the M3 (though they work fine with other M variations as well).

 

[pepeguitarra]

For the film, I would start with something very easy for a walk around stock, like HP5. I did not say "Tri X" because HP5 dries flat, which is a substantial bonus if you scan. Else than that, when shot around EI 200-250 this film is gorgeous, and in some developers it looks good even at EI 640. For slower shooting, when you want more fine detail, you should try Adox Silvermax. In Europe I tend to buy from Macodirect, in the USA from Freestyle.

Thank you, I bought one each of the ones you mentioned here. Films are their way, so is the camera.

 

[ramosa]

Good luck with your M3. Even if you don't get along well with film, you can always resell the camera--and, IMHO, will have still had an incredible film experience. Film types? I shoot Tri-X (and Portra in color), both at 400. If you do get along with the M3, I'm sure you'll experiment and find the film types that work best to your liking.

 

[Harry Lime]

I know, but remember that I will be flying solo here. That is, I will be guessing the light, and guessing the 35mm frames. That is the beauty of it. It is an adventure.

The idea sounds romantic, but in practice it is in all likelihood going to turn out to be a PIA.

Keep in mind that the 50mm frame lines on the M3 look very different than on a regular M... They will be hard to ignore as you try to look 'past' them.

If you want meterless and the essence of analog M photography go for an M2 or M4.

 

[B-9]

No better camera to start with than a M3,

I would throw away that guessing business and get a light meter, even a free app on your phone is better than nothing. I usually grab a baseline exposure for the area then leave the meter in my car or strapped to the bike. Finish off your M3 by adding a good working MC or MR meter, you'll be looking the part as well!

Not much more to add,

It is all about Consistency, so definitely find a film you like and stick to it.
If you decide to develop at home, same idea, find a simple to use chemistry you can get readily, and stick with it!

Tons of info available here for home developing, chemistry, and technique. Just check out the sub forums!

Also, do not forget to post a photo of your new M3 in the "Show of your Leica M" thread, you might even go a step further and join the hierarchy of the "Camera and Coffee" thread!

 

[pepeguitarra]

I love this forum, so many ideas, so many personalities, so many objectives.

I love this forum, so many ideas, so many personalities, so many objectives.

Today, I believe digital is the only way to go with photography. To me, the medium offers several advantages over film from the moment of capture, process with a computer and a multitude of ways to view. And its features and benefits has caught up and, in many ways, surpasses film. I do use film for black and white and have a darkroom but, in my mind, it reminds me of when I was young, nostalgia. And I have darkroom stuff I kept around since the 1960's. If you use film and have it scanned then you have digital files made from your film. Isn't something lost in the transition? If you're going to use film, I recommend to carry the process all the way, develop the film, use an analog darkroom or find a lab that will. Darkroom black and white prints still look wonderful to me. It's just, for me, film and especially the darkroom is kind of a pita. Most labs use color paper to print black and white digital files unless, of course, it's ink jet and those prints are close but no cigar yet. May I suggest that the money you would spend on buying film gear be allocated on taking workshops that focus on the basics of photography. I believe they are posing, lighting & composition. Workshops that have hands on tasks, reviews with recommendations on how to do better, then go out and try to do better again and again. When I was active in the Twin Cities PPA affiliate, we had a workshop every month! Print competition, once a year and it was designed to be a learning experience for each maker. The best piece of equipment is the person looking through the viewfinder! That's where I'd spend my money, on that important piece of gear! My thoughts. Hope they help you.

Interesting; this is a wonderful forum because it allows every single point of view, experience and opinion to unite under one common denominator: Photography.

Bill, your opinion is very important and is very valuable (remember there is no right or wrong when dealing with our own wishes and desires.)

I designed (structural design engineer) my first 20-story building about 42 years ago, using one slide rule and one logarithm table. The design method (Cross, Kani, etc.) were in my mind already, learned at college years before. It took me almost 5 months to finish with drawings and all. Today, if I were still doing structural engineering, it would take me a week using powerful computer software, and another week printing the plans from Autocad in a large printer. Technology made our life easier, our work can be done faster and more efficiently. We will be able to drive a car in few years without driving it. In the future, we will be able to do nothing (well, relatively speaking) and live even better. Then, we look back and find it all weird.... yes, nostalgia.

We live too fast now. That is why we are abandoning the things that we enjoy and make it possible for us to be ourselves. I agree with technology to improve the job. If I were doing magazine or fashion photography, I would be probably enjoying a lot more digital photography. It would be a job. Anything that makes job easy is good. But when one has no buildings to design, projects to build, one may feel like nothing without the computer. In a recent trip to an underdeveloped country, I realized that I could not do what they needed with the computer. I had to go back in time and think the way I learned and used the engineering principles to solve a problem we were trying to solve. Many parts of the world still lives in the 19th Century.

Yes, nostalgia and the realization that to fully enjoy life we need to feel ourselves fully useful again. Going back to the basics is what it is all about. When you have gone through life achieving the goals that you set. The internal clock set by nature inside you starts ticking and asking you to start preparing for departure to the next level. Like Amy Winehouse said when singing the song..."You go back to her, and I go back to......black".

Well, I should have not put so much scotch in my coffee today. I went back to black in six seconds. 🙂

Your comments are so good and valid that they put more food for thought in my head. Yes, there is something missing between the lab scanning and the less than perfect now digital copy. I may do my own developing (as I said), but also my own enlargement and analog printing. Learning more stuff is for sure very certain and thanks for the encouragement. 😉

 

[pepeguitarra]

The idea sounds romantic, but in practice it is in all likelihood going to turn out to be a PIA. Keep in mind that the 50mm frame lines on the M3 look very different than on a regular M... They will be hard to ignore as you try to look 'past' them. If you want meterless and the essence of analog M photography go for an M2 or M4.

Thanks Harry;
Can you please tell me what PIA is? I already ordered the M3 from a reputable dealer who does the CLA and offers warranty. So, I really wan the M3, it is a romantic idea. I need another camera like I need a hole in my head! 😉

I will be guessing the 35mm frame and see how it goes. I want to really go back to basics. I want to experience what those guys did. I was in the Pentax world in the early days with a K1000 (fully manual and no meter). Then I married and have kids and went to Videocameras straight. I skipped so much. I want to go where I picked up.

I am completely sure I will enjoy it. Hey, I will post here and get even more comments. 🙂

 

[B-9]

Better have another scotch, and browse Craigslist for a free/cheap enlarger!

 

[pepeguitarra]

No better camera to start with than a M3,

I would throw away that guessing business and get a light meter, even a free app on your phone is better than nothing. I usually grab a baseline exposure for the area then leave the meter in my car or strapped to the bike. Finish off your M3 by adding a good working MC or MR meter, you'll be looking the part as well!

Not much more to add,

It is all about Consistency, so definitely find a film you like and stick to it.
If you decide to develop at home, same idea, find a simple to use chemistry you can get readily, and stick with it!

Tons of info available here for home developing, chemistry, and technique. Just check out the sub forums!

Also, do not forget to post a photo of your new M3 in the "Show of your Leica M" thread, you might even go a step further and join the hierarchy of the "Camera and Coffee" thread!

B-9;

Thanks and done. I ordered the MR. I am sure once I use it for a while, I will leave at home. I ordered several films to try and decide. My intention is to develop my own B&W photos at home. The first one would be from the lab, but I expect to get into the enlarging and printing too.

I will join that place too.😉

 

[Harry Lime]

Thanks Harry;
Can you please tell me what PIA is?

Pain in the rear end aka PIA.

Trying to imagine the framing of a 35 on the M3. Not the romantic notion of going back to basics.

All of 'those guys' jumped on the M2 when it came out for good reasons. If you only shoot 50/90/135 the m3 is perfect. Anything else gets interesting. from personal experience.

 

[pepeguitarra]

Pain in the rear end aka PIA.

Trying to imagine the framing of a 35 on the M3. Not the romantic notion of going back to basics.

All of 'those guys' jumped on the M2 when it came out for good reasons. If you only shoot 50/90/135 the m3 is perfect. Anything else gets interesting. from personal experience.

Thanks. We'll see, maybe I will use my 50mm a lot more.

 

[pepeguitarra]

Pain in the rear end aka PIA.

Trying to imagine the framing of a 35 on the M3. Not the romantic notion of going back to basics.

All of 'those guys' jumped on the M2 when it came out for good reasons. If you only shoot 50/90/135 the m3 is perfect. Anything else gets interesting. from personal experience.

Harry;
You have me thinking a lot. However, after I retired, one of my two main "jobs" have been classical guitar making, which I started about 15 years ago. I make Spanish guitars the way they were made at the beginning of the XX Century, two or three hand tools. I tried reducing to only one, like most Mexican makers do, but I couldn't. Long time ago, I played golf, and only had one club, a 3 Wood (made of real wood). I showed up with one club to the games and people laughed until I started shooting. Eventually, I had to get a sand wedge because the 3W did not work well there. So, I think I will do OK with the M3. In the event it does not work out, then I will have to do something about it.🙂

 

[David Hughes]

Thanks Harry;
Can you please tell me what PIA is? I already ordered the M3 from a reputable dealer who does the CLA and offers warranty. So, I really wan the M3, it is a romantic idea. I need another camera like I need a hole in my head! 😉

I will be guessing the 35mm frame and see how it goes. I want to really go back to basics. I want to experience what those guys did. I was in the Pentax world in the early days with a K1000 (fully manual and no meter).

Is it too late to stop you? The K1000 had a meter and a nice one too. Very easy to get desired one or a half stops over or under whilst looking in the VF. Anyway, the old MR meters for the M3 or MC for the M2 are easy to use...

Regards, David

 

[pepeguitarra]

Is it too late to stop you? The K1000 had a meter and a nice one too. Very easy to get desired one or a half stops over or under whilst looking in the VF. Anyway, the old MR meters for the M3 or MC for the M2 are easy to use...

Regards, David

Well, they say memory goes before everything. I have not seen a K1000 in 42 years. More reasons to then buy the MR, which I already ordered and downloaded the manual in pdf. It is easy, indeed.

Now that you are here David. I have the Summicron 50/2 Rigid (my favorite 50 together with the Nikkor 50/1.4), not the DR. Will the Rigid work with the M3 correct? I will not the the closeup focussing, correct?