Much as I understand...

ampguy said:
I remember talking to a UK friend and they asked something like if I recycled my "alumininium" cans, and I said "What??" When I finally figured out what they were referring to, I thought they must still use steel cans and the term was very new for them :p
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Yep, it were the same when I asked my hostess if I could help her wash-up :rolleyes:
 
Matus said:
I do not remember a thread that I have enjoyed so much as this one in a long time.

Anyhow - being a non native English speaker, but working in an international environment (physics) I started to wonder, whether all those misuses, mistakes and inconsistencies have been introduced by us - non native speakers.

At least in high energy physics in Europe (Germany) in an international lab (GSI) the English is the main language, but as there are very few native English speakers and with the rest having very different level of knowledge - the language can easily be steered away from its original form.

A few examples:
- plural form of 'index' written as 'indexes' (even in our software!) - fortunately not always.
- 'chisquare' (square of the greek letter 'chi') pronounced as spanish 'x' instead of 'k'
- past tense of the verb 'fit' written as 'fitted' (in the meaning of approximating a discrete distribution with a mathematical function)
- pronouncing the word 'determined' as '***mined'
- screwing up the more complex sentences just because simple ones are not cool enough ...

I do feel bad for that and I apologize for screwing up your language. I know I do ...

Still - to my opinion the ENglish language suffers from its apparent simplicity - in other words to reach the level sufficient for basic communication is rather easy, but learning all the necessary exceptions and idioms is not.

So, dear native English speakers here at RFF, bear with us non natives. We do our best as much as we can :)
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Good heavens no! As a youth I grew-up in a northern mill town, the grammatical idioms I observed at school were completely different to those in my home neighbourhood and both differ from that which we use, here, on the interweb these days ... if English has a repository it's with you, the non-native speakers I would contend
 
Vince Lupo said:
Perhaps those of you who are from the UK can enlighten me on the word 'aluminium' vs the American 'aluminum'. How did the 'i' get dropped? Or, how did it get shoved in there where it's not supposed to be?!
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Dear Vince,

Sir Humphrey Davy (who first isolated it from alum in 1812) originally called it 'Alumium', then 'Aluminum' then 'Aluminium'. See also post 80.

Cheers,

R.
 
Thanks for the history lesson, Roger. As a Canadian, I didn't seem to adopt that spelling or pronunciation for aluminum, but I still stick my U's in whenever I can (labour, neighbour, etc), though I've been living in the U.S for 16 years. And I insist on calling napkins 'serviettes'!
 
Vince Lupo said:
Thanks for the history lesson, Roger. As a Canadian, I didn't seem to adopt that spelling or pronunciation for aluminum, but I still stick my U's in whenever I can (labour, neighbour, etc), though I've been living in the U.S for 16 years. And I insist on calling napkins 'serviettes'!
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Dear Vince,

In England, 'serviette' is regarded as 'non-U' as compared with 'napkin'. 'U' and 'Non-U' is a fantastically complicated system of class indicators devised by one of the Mitfords, as unsavoury a bunch of upper-class loonies as ever you could hope not to meet. I think it stands for 'Upper Class', or it might be 'Us', but I'm not sure: I never could get on with much that any Mitford wrote. Anyway, the 'done thing' in the UK is to call 'em 'napkins'.

This is an excellent reminder that dialects vary not only regionally but also by class. It's also more socially acceptable in the UK to say "Sorry?" or some such, when you don't hear someone, rather than "Pardon?"

Weird.

Cheers,

R.
 
zumbido said:
I got yelled at on the street in London by a guy in a natty suit for saying "Excuse me" after he ran into me. He turned around, a few seconds and fifteen feet past, and screamed: "SORRY! say SORRY!"

Later found out that "excuse me" is apparently what you say if you pass gas, not when some pompous ass runs you over on the sidewalk.
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fart, arse and pavement? :)

PS chap and smart suit
 
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Since Comcast switched us to digital cable I've been watching a lot of BBCA, so I've been getting a crash course in UK-isms. What's interesting to me (as an undergrad linguistics major, long, long ago) is how I comprehend the different words and expressions totally through context. By contrast I'm sure it'd take at least a couple near-head-on collisions before I'd figure out driving on the left :D

As for the "as much as" question, I don't think I've ever heard "much as" in daily conversation, because it "sounds funny" to my ear, and my recollection goes back to the Eisenhower administration.

What I see as a prime example of syntactic evolution in my lifetime is the prepositional phrase. When I was in school we were taught never to end a sentence with a preposition. Nowadays whenever I read what was formerly a "proper" construction it sounds almost pretentious. (eg. "the camera with which I took these photos" as opposed to "the camera I took these photos with.")
 
we watch MI5, kind of a UK budget based version of 24. I've noticed that the way they talk is about 180 degrees from the BBC - they are uttering short slang without prepositions, often one word utterances, and relying on the visuals for the meanings.

Where the BBC (world news) no matter how trivial the subject, goes into great details and almost puts you to sleep. The BBC still mis-pronounces a lot of non UK names and places, but it is still recognizable.
 
Ben Z said:
Since Comcast switched us to digital cable I've been watching a lot of BBCA, so I've been getting a crash course in UK-isms. What's interesting to me (as an undergrad linguistics major, long, long ago) is how I comprehend the different words and expressions totally through context. By contrast I'm sure it'd take at least a couple near-head-on collisions before I'd figure out driving on the left :D

As for the "as much as" question, I don't think I've ever heard "much as" in daily conversation, because it "sounds funny" to my ear, and my recollection goes back to the Eisenhower administration.

What I see as a prime example of syntactic evolution in my lifetime is the prepositional phrase. When I was in school we were taught never to end a sentence with a preposition. Nowadays whenever I read what was formerly a "proper" construction it sounds almost pretentious. (eg. "the camera with which I took these photos" as opposed to "the camera I took these photos with.")
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Yes, but you don't speak English. You speak American, which is a different language.

Remember also Churchill's attack on needless pedantry: "This is the sort of English up with which I will not put."

Cheers,

R.
 
Roger Hicks said:
Yes, but you don't speak English. You speak American, which is a different language.

Remember also Churchill's attack on needless pedantry: "This is the sort of English up with which I will not put."

Cheers,

R.
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Enoch Powell would translate his speeches into Latin then back into English to ensure the grammar was correct.

Which would cause one to question his sanity if nothing else did.
 
Roger Hicks said:
Yes, but you don't speak English. You speak American, which is a different language.

Remember also Churchill's attack on needless pedantry: "This is the sort of English up with which I will not put."

Cheers,

R.
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Keeping in mind Mr. Churchill's admonition, nonetheless, per the science of Linguistics, Standard (Midwestern) American doesn't even quite qualify as a dialect of English, let alone a different language :p Rrural Scottish and Irish, American Urban (Ebonics), Jamaican, London East-end...those are examples of bona-fide English dialects. Dutch, German, Frisian...those are examples of distinct languages related to English.

BTW, my favorite Churchill anecdote is the one where he calls some woman ugly at a dinner party and she tells him he's drunk, to which he replies "That's true, but I'll be sober tomorrow... and you'll still be ugly." :D
 
Ben Z said:
Keeping in mind Mr. Churchill's admonition, nonetheless, per the science of Linguistics, Standard (Midwestern) American doesn't even quite qualify as a dialect of English, let alone a different language :p Rrural Scottish and Irish, American Urban (Ebonics), Jamaican, London East-end...those are examples of bona-fide English dialects. Dutch, German, Frisian...those are examples of distinct languages related to English.

BTW, my favorite Churchill anecdote is the one where he calls some woman ugly at a dinner party and she tells him he's drunk, to which he replies "That's true, but I'll be sober tomorrow... and you'll still be ugly." :D
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I believe it was actually in the Chamber of the House, and as he was a gentleman he said "yes madam I am; and you are ugly ... in the morning I shall be sober .." it was Nancy Astor I think
 
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