antiquark
Derek Ross
Vince Lupo
Whatever
Here is a short list of my English language pet peeves (more spoken that written):
The use of the word 'So' to begin a sentence (listen to NPR and you hear it a lot);
The dreaded frequent insertion of 'like';
You know - all those 'You know's';
The term 'at the end of the day'. That's a popular saying with pundits, military and business officials, and of course politicians. They never tell you what happens in the middle of the day, or at the beginning of the next day, just at the end of the day;
And of course -- who could forget um....um...UM!
The use of the word 'So' to begin a sentence (listen to NPR and you hear it a lot);
The dreaded frequent insertion of 'like';
You know - all those 'You know's';
The term 'at the end of the day'. That's a popular saying with pundits, military and business officials, and of course politicians. They never tell you what happens in the middle of the day, or at the beginning of the next day, just at the end of the day;
And of course -- who could forget um....um...UM!
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
English is a constantly evolving language
Jim-st
Well-known
You're right, Roger, the "as much as I like..." construction is plain wrong.
The following constructions are correct:
"Much as I distrust algebraic exemplifications..."
and
"In as much as x < y, y > x"
In fact, inasmuch may even be a word in its own right.
So folks get confused.
But hey, if it works for some, and irritates others, what the heck?
The following constructions are correct:
"Much as I distrust algebraic exemplifications..."
and
"In as much as x < y, y > x"
In fact, inasmuch may even be a word in its own right.
So folks get confused.
But hey, if it works for some, and irritates others, what the heck?
Someone needs to publish the Backus-Naur Form for English. that would clear up all of these problems.
It's not too clean for FORTRAN, but that one I can handle.
^
|
Bad Syntax. Unrecognized case following "." operator.
It's not too clean for FORTRAN, but that one I can handle.
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Ronald M
Veteran
Doesn `t bother me as muich as , "Yes, I already know it" like you are asking yourself a question and responding. Makes me teeth grate when I hear it.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
There's no right or wrong here for me ... language is a living thing and it evolves from it's roots like it or not.
You can choose to speak the way you were taught and maintain your own personal language standards (my father has) or you can jump on the train and just go with it!
This thread is totally sick Roger ... much better than banging on about Leicas! :angel:
You can choose to speak the way you were taught and maintain your own personal language standards (my father has) or you can jump on the train and just go with it!
This thread is totally sick Roger ... much better than banging on about Leicas! :angel:
As much as I hate to say it
I have no trouble with "as much as"
One that really irks me is "the below xxxx".
For example "the below statement is untrue". Grrrr :bang:
I have no trouble with "as much as"
One that really irks me is "the below xxxx".
For example "the below statement is untrue". Grrrr :bang:
DNG
Film Friendly
Good one.....
How about the word "Really"...
It has evolved in the last few years as follows:
"I really like this web-site"... Straight forward and the normal usage.
"You're turning out the lights? Really?, meaning a more negative tone, like, "Are you serious" or, "Are you for Real"?
How about the word "Really"...
It has evolved in the last few years as follows:
"I really like this web-site"... Straight forward and the normal usage.
"You're turning out the lights? Really?, meaning a more negative tone, like, "Are you serious" or, "Are you for Real"?
semilog
curmudgeonly optimist
For those of you who care about grammar and usage just a bit too much, David Foster Wallace's review of Bryan Garner's Oxford Dictionary of Modern American Usage is a minor classic.
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Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
I still think the best word ever invented is f**k ... it's so f**king versatile!
What the f**k?
I don't really give a f**k.
This camera is f**ked!
How the f**k are you? ... and hundreds more possibilities.
Whoever is responsible for this excellent word deserves a f**king medal!
What the f**k?
I don't really give a f**k.
This camera is f**ked!
How the f**k are you? ... and hundreds more possibilities.
Whoever is responsible for this excellent word deserves a f**king medal!
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
I don't like it when a word like 'oriented" gets turned into "orientated." I just don't like that extra "tate" being slipped in. Once you start slipping in extra syllables, where will it all end? "Orientatatated?" How about "Orientatatentatatatated?"
Want to get started on "Irregardless?" I've always believed it to be incorrect. I'd say it sounds positively unlearned. I saw in a dictionary, though, that although it has never met with public approval, it is nevertheless consistent with acceptable word construction principles, and means the same thing as the legal phrase "not withstanding to the contrary."
Want to get started on "Irregardless?" I've always believed it to be incorrect. I'd say it sounds positively unlearned. I saw in a dictionary, though, that although it has never met with public approval, it is nevertheless consistent with acceptable word construction principles, and means the same thing as the legal phrase "not withstanding to the contrary."
JohnTF
Veteran
I would care to see the folks "reading" the news at least have a go through before the program, it is obvious they have never seen the copy before, or they are just woefully ignorant. Pattern follows with some political speeches.
And, the incorrect use of like in place of as. It grates on my ears, along with excessive reliance on contractions.
At times the language should be a bit more formal. If it is written, it should be a bit more formal, conversation, more relaxed is fine.
Much as I generally agree with Roger's use of language, I sense a difference in meaning between "as much as" and "much as" so I can see the use of either, depending on context and meaning intended. Should be the author's choice, editing should not change the connotation of the copy, unless there is a clear error.
Regards, John
And, the incorrect use of like in place of as. It grates on my ears, along with excessive reliance on contractions.
At times the language should be a bit more formal. If it is written, it should be a bit more formal, conversation, more relaxed is fine.
Much as I generally agree with Roger's use of language, I sense a difference in meaning between "as much as" and "much as" so I can see the use of either, depending on context and meaning intended. Should be the author's choice, editing should not change the connotation of the copy, unless there is a clear error.
Regards, John
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JohnTF
Veteran
+1 also it is Math, not Maths. ;-) Collective nouns are singular, for the most part.
Kodak are bringing out a new film?
Roger Hicks
Veteran
You are correct Roger, English does evolve. Otherwise we would still be speaking Shakespearean-style, which while it is characterful, is a bit cumbersome.
Dear Frank,
Cumbersome? Not really. No more so than any other poetry or oratory. The grammar's the same. It's just that some of the words have changed.
@Jesse: there's nothing wrong with 'as much as', which is a perfectly legitimate construction. It just doesn't mean the same.
@Vince: I have always understood 'At the end of the day' to be of legal origin, referring to the 'day in court', which can of course take weeks.
@DNG: All my life, "Really?" has been used as a one-word response meaning, in many cases, "I am slightly surprised at that, but not very, as it merely confirms my suspicions." It may also mean (depending on the tone of voice -- think of Lady Bracknell and the handbag) a slighly milder version "How dare you!" The usage you quote is undoubtedly tiresome, especially when over-used, but seems to me a legitimate extension of the usage.
@Keith: ****ing right!
@Rob-F: also 'burglarized' instead of 'burgled'. And there are others.
@Patrick: indeed. There's a big difference between evolution and sloppy thinking reflected in sloppy speech. I know that it's no longer fashionable to believe in Sapir-Whorf, now that the 'time' example is discredited, but equally, I can't help thinking that the vast majority of people who can't write clearly are also unable to think clearly, and that by failng to take the time to arrange their thoughts on the page, they are reinforcing that inability. The German-derived American usage of 'dumb' (as 'stupid' -- not an English usage) is curiously apposite here.
@John: My spectacles is over there? So is my trousers? But not, "The French football team are a load of worthless primadonnas"? (Note that both 'team' and 'load' are apparent singulars). Maths is a contraction, not an abbreviation in the conventional form made by omitting the latter part of the word.
Cheers,
R.
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SimonSawSunlight
Simon Fabel
much as 'much' is a proper english word, it really sounds stupid after a while if you say it over and over again.
much much much much much much much much much much much much
much much much much much much much much much much much much
Vince Lupo
Whatever
I remember a high school teacher of mine describing 'irregardless' as 'not regardless', which is 'regardless'.
funkpilz
Well-known
Far as I know, it's been around forever. I'm not a native speaker, though.
Sparrow
Veteran
I always thought disinformation was a deception by the misinformed.
And another thing I find annoying, is people starting a sentence with a conjunction
And another thing I find annoying, is people starting a sentence with a conjunction
archive59
Established
I still think the best word ever invented is f**k ... it's so f**king versatile!
What the f**k?
I don't really give a f**k.
This camera is f**ked!
How the f**k are you? ... and hundreds more possibilities.
Whoever is responsible for this excellent word deserves a f**king medal!
Many years ago, when I was working for an aircraft manufacturer in Manchester (UK) I picked up the 'phone to be told, without any introduction, that the "f**king f**ker's f**ked". The most surprising thing was that I knew exactly what he meant.