"My cameras don't explode"

[Krasnaya_Zvezda]

That's what I told the security guard who approached me today, on a public street, after I took a couple of shots of the remains of a building that had been all but demolished.
When he started in ("What are you doing? Are you taking pictures?"), I said, "Yes, I'm taking photos, and whoever employs you is completely paranoid and stupid, do you know that? It is ridiculous to question people like this, let alone someone photographing a building that has only two walls left standing."
I was sure he worked at the building across the street, which says across the top "Rolex."
Then he says, "I'm just supposed to get anybody's name who is taking any pictures around here. They don't want no pictures on the internet, and no buildings gettin' blown up."
That's when I told him, "Well, my cameras don't explode."
He just kind of chuckled, and drove off in his golf cart. Surprised me there.

 

[anselwannab]

Where were you and what were you taking pictures of?

 

[ClaremontPhoto]

Cameras are just for using at kids parties and on holiday. Aren't they?

 

[Goodyear]

Cameras are just for using at kids parties and on holiday. Aren't they?

Especially not those places.

Kids parties may have minors rpesent, and on holiday you may be harassing other holidayers.

 

[ClaremontPhoto]

Every year in Portugal holidaymakers take pictures on the beach and bystanders call the police.

You cannot take somebody's picture without their knowledge and agreement, even if they are insignificant in the background.

The police will take the film from your camera.

 

[peterc]

Last time this happened to me I told the moron I'd be happy to let him use my cellphone to call police and I'd wait until they arrived so they could follow me to the bar where I'd be having a beer with Osama and handing over the film.
Some people just get their panties in a twist far too easily.

Peter

 

[bmattock]

Every year in Portugal holidaymakers take pictures on the beach and bystanders call the police.

You cannot take somebody's picture without their knowledge and agreement, even if they are insignificant in the background.

The police will take the film from your camera.

Wow, that's really disappointing. Still, I have little doubt it will end up happening everywhere eventually.

I wonder what the Portugese do when a spy satellite goes overhead, snapping photos furiously? Or the cell phones that now have cameras in them? Or the ATM machines that face the beach and take photos of them every couple of minutes? Oh well, not my problem.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[Honu-Hugger]

That's what I told the security guard who approached me today, on a public street, after I took a couple of shots of the remains of a building that had been all but demolished.
When he started in ("What are you doing? Are you taking pictures?"), I said, "Yes, I'm taking photos, and whoever employs you is completely paranoid and stupid, do you know that? It is ridiculous to question people like this, let alone someone photographing a building that has only two walls left standing."
I was sure he worked at the building across the street, which says across the top "Rolex."
Then he says, "I'm just supposed to get anybody's name who is taking any pictures around here. They don't want no pictures on the internet, and no buildings gettin' blown up."
That's when I told him, "Well, my cameras don't explode."
He just kind of chuckled, and drove off in his golf cart. Surprised me there.

Were you intending to "blow up" the pictures? 😉

 

[Krasnaya_Zvezda]

Wow, that's really disappointing. Still, I have little doubt it will end up happening everywhere eventually.

...
Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

I believe you are right in this unforntunate prediction, Bill. This paranoid environment is really getting to me. This is at least the 4th time I've had to go through this with some security peon, and I'm getting tired of it. I'm determined, next time this happens, I'm not going to explain, I'm not going to try to be understanding, I'm just going to say, "If you believe I am doing something illegal, then call the police. If not, then leave me the hell alone."
Maybe I'll hand them a copy of "The Photographer's Rights" at the same time. Probably wouldn't help.

 

[egpj]

That will not work. Really there is nothing to do about it. They are clouded in their own world of "righteous security paranoia". The only thing I can recommend for taking photo's in the urban areas now is to get a job with the government (something in federal law enforcement) That way when the local comes up and asks your business you show your I.D. and tell him to "Pack Sand someplace else". (I miss being able to do that.) 😀

 

[ch1]

That will not work. Really there is nothing to do about it. They are clouded in their own world of "righteous security paranoia". The only thing I can recommend for taking photo's in the urban areas now is to get a job with the government (something in federal law enforcement) That way when the local comes up and asks your business you show your I.D. and tell him to "Pack Sand someplace else". (I miss being able to do that.) 😀

A lot of the time it depends on the place of shooting. I live in Manhattan during the week and work in Midtown next to the Waldorf Astoria and many other hotels. Hence there are always tons of tourists wandering about - most of which have some form of camera draping from their neck.

No one looks askance in this context with someone taking pictures. Heck, I've had situations where pedestrians nearly get themselves killed walking into the street to avoid "ruining" my shot!

I certainly have never had anyone "challenge" my right to take a shot.

Perhaps the difference is that NYC is such a walking/pedestrian city full of people ambling about day and night. If one were to be shooting in the more common "car centered" cities with few pedestrians - I guess you would "stand out" more and raise more curiosity.

 

[bmattock]

That will not work. Really there is nothing to do about it. They are clouded in their own world of "righteous security paranoia". The only thing I can recommend for taking photo's in the urban areas now is to get a job with the government (something in federal law enforcement) That way when the local comes up and asks your business you show your I.D. and tell him to "Pack Sand someplace else". (I miss being able to do that.) 😀

A fine english word no longer used is 'absquatulate'. It literally means 'go and squat elsewhere'. Of course, "Go pound sand" has a long and respectable history here as well.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[bmattock]

I believe you are right in this unforntunate prediction, Bill. This paranoid environment is really getting to me. This is at least the 4th time I've had to go through this with some security peon, and I'm getting tired of it. I'm determined, next time this happens, I'm not going to explain, I'm not going to try to be understanding, I'm just going to say, "If you believe I am doing something illegal, then call the police. If not, then leave me the hell alone."
Maybe I'll hand them a copy of "The Photographer's Rights" at the same time. Probably wouldn't help.

Just to be clear - one must be prepared to be arrested when one takes the 'stand up for my rights' road. Even police will sometimes ignore what they know to be the law, and by the time you get sprung by your lawyer, you may have been somewhat disassembled by angry authority figures. One must pick one's battles.

But I understand your anger and frustration.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[anselwannab]

It's a free country, they also have the right to ask you what you're doing. Doesn't mean you have to answer, doesn't mean you have to be nice, doesn't mean you have to tell the truth.

How about taking the high road and telling them why you are taking the pic, what about the composition is artworthy. If they're a prick, their eyes will glaze over. If they're open minded they might enjoy the insight, and if you're really lucky you might peak their interest in photography. Of course, they could be a fellow FM'er who'll steal your idea for the Weekly Competition, but not likely.

What's wrong with saying with a smile on your face, "I'm a photographer and I think blah, blah is really interesting."?

 

[sf]

Security guards

Security guards

I have had numerous encounters with a certain security guard over the past couple of years. Carnation Farms (now Nestle) in Carntion, WA is a totally gorgeous place. A white farm with white fences, a long road lined with trees, a long thin lake, color everwhere, white fences. Beautiful any time of year. I have shot it with every format I have. Every camera I have had since Freshman year in high school.

Several times that I went to take pictures, a security guard in a little white pickup would roll up behind me and say "no pictures allowed" "You'll have to leave NOW". I was standing on public property when taking the pictures, and the farm is not hidden at all from the road, so they had no expectation of privacy, though surely some other obscure law applied.

The last couple of times, he had come to know my white camaro as a sign of nasty photography, and I can see him take off from his little shack every time I stop near the farm. Once, I was shooting with my Pentax645NII on a tripod, I saw him take off, and I hurried through my process, got off a few shots, and quickly stuffed everything back into my car just as he came hauling butt across a gravel patch to get me, I took off (making the best use of my 4 liters), and of course he could not follow.

He is never so brazen when I am in a crowd (like shooting in the midst of fishing people that like to sit or stand along the bridge and fish in their little lake), he just rolls by slowly giving me the look. But when I am alone, I'm his worst enemy.

Man, it's just Nestle. It's not Langley. All they do is grow paper trees and grass. I'd bet they wish they could just block the road off at both ends and charge tolls.

I worried about going over to Europe with my LF camera, so I am selling it and buying the RF645 for this reason (among others). Small and light, so I can shoot and run if necessary.

Hey, maybe photography will become a rebel thing full of renegade artists with long hair and leather and Harleys for quick get aways. We'll all get tattoos and have prison stories and scars from run-ins with photo-gangs.

When all else fails, I just tell them I'm a photography student. It works, for now, maybe for a couple more years.

 

[bmattock]

I was standing on public property

Just be careful. One fellow got arrested for trespassing because his camera lens extended through a chain link fence about an inch. That's trespassing if ANY part of you or your equipment extends over their property line. A sidewalk or a public road are usually quite public and too bad for rent-a-cop. But one must be careful.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[ywenz]

Listen guy, if it's a private building, they have all the right to come up to you and ask if you were taking pictures of their building. Wouldn't you be compelled to do the same if someone walked up and started snapping away at your house?

 

[bmattock]

It's a free country, they also have the right to ask you what you're doing. Doesn't mean you have to answer, doesn't mean you have to be nice, doesn't mean you have to tell the truth.

How about taking the high road and telling them why you are taking the pic, what about the composition is artworthy. If they're a prick, their eyes will glaze over. If they're open minded they might enjoy the insight, and if you're really lucky you might peak their interest in photography. Of course, they could be a fellow FM'er who'll steal your idea for the Weekly Competition, but not likely.

What's wrong with saying with a smile on your face, "I'm a photographer and I think blah, blah is really interesting."?

Why don't the security guards explain that they have no legal standing to require a response, but would I please tell them what I'm doing there?

They don't do that. They pretend that they have authority that they do not, and they 'demand' to know what I'm doing - even if they say it with a smile on their faces.

Just like the security guards at Walmart and Bestbuy and CompUSA. As you leave, they say "I need to see in your bag," or "I need to see your receipt." Never a request - a demand. And they have no authority to do so.

We're trained to respond positively to authority figures. We do what we're told.

Yes, it is polite to be nice to people who ask questions, and yes, it might net all those fine results. But there is a larger concept involved here, from my point of view.

I don't give in to presumed authority. It ticks me off. It would be the 'polite' thing to do, but is it the 'right' thing to do? For me, no.

When a security guard asks me something that they're not entitled to know, I may choose to answer them politely and honestly, but usually, I just say "No, thank you," and continue on about my business. I do the same thing when store detectives ask to see my receipt or ask to look in my shopping bag. I say "No thank you" and keep on steppin'. If they think I stole something, let them arrest me and then prove it.

Likewise, if a security guard thinks he can stop me taking photos legally, then let him detain me and call the police and we'll see if he's right. If he is, I'm under arrest. If he's wrong, I bring suit for unlawful imprisonment under color of authority and I end up with a big fat bag of cash. Take your chance and do what you think is right.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[bmattock]

Listen guy, if it's a private building, they have all the right to come up to you and ask if you were taking pictures of their building. Wouldn't you be compelled to do the same if someone walked up and started snapping away at your house?

You're mistaking their rights and my rights. Of course they have the right to come up to me and ask me what I'm doing. They have no right to compel me to answer them. I can take photos of anything I like, as long as I do it from public property.

Please note - post 9/11, there are exceptions to the above. Certain military installations, bridges, power plants, and even tall private buildings may be made off-limits with or without notice. But in general, I can take photos of any private building I like from public property. The owner has a right to ASK me what I'm doing. That's as far as their rights go. They can't stop me from doing it, they can't demand that I leave, they can't have me arrested, they can't do jack.

Would I be compelled to ask someone what they were doing if they walked up and started snapping photos of my house? Yep, sure would. But I would also know that I had no legal way to make them stop. Would it bother me? Sure would. But I would know there was nothing I could do about it.

You ever notice what happens when some guy gets arrested and the TV news crews start camping out at his house? He can call the police all he wants, they can't make the news crews go away - as long as they are not trespassing on his property.

The TV news crews don't have any rights that private citizens don't also have.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[bmattock]

I'd also make sure the security guard is not a true policeman moonlighting.
A friend of mine got a rude awakening telling a supposed rent a cop to f*** off.

When a police officer moonlights as a security guard, he is still a police officer. But he has no police authority unless he identifies himself as a police officer and asks you under that authority. I'd tell a cop to f**k off too, nothing illegal about that in most jurisdictions. But it IS dangerous to tick a cop off, that's true.

I flipped off the President in front of a cop, nothing happened to me. I was five feet away from him and his face got really mean, but oh well. The Secret Service took photos of me, and the cop I was standing next to said "I don't believe you just did that." I asked him if I was under arrest, and he just told me to beat it.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks