noci
Established
Well, today I went to check out some used lenses I saw online @ the leica-camera-berlin store..
When I enter the store, the salesperson barely looks up from his screen and murmurs a subdued welcome, one eyebrow raised in that "now what could you possibly want here" look on his face.
I proceed to ask him about two lenses, which he denies to have in stock.
I tell him "in fact you have two of them", which turns out to be the case.
He beckons me to the back of the store, where he begins to jerkily unlock one of the display cases. I point to a lens - he picks it up and briefly mentions something about its qualities, then quickly puts it back without even asking me to take a look at it or taking off the back cap so I can check it out. Another lens - a 50 summicron - turns out to be a collapsible instead of a fixed version, which I point out might damage my - *gasp* - BESSA. at that moment he gets really talkative proclaiming he can't help me with any of that. I am at that point utterly frustrated, say my "goodbye" and leave that damn store.
seems I did not correspond to the posh "shopping-at-leica" stereotype or whatever qualifies one to buy a lens there. guess I'll take my business elsewhere & thank you very much, Mr. Leica-Berlin-don't-need-no-customers-like-you.
When I enter the store, the salesperson barely looks up from his screen and murmurs a subdued welcome, one eyebrow raised in that "now what could you possibly want here" look on his face.
I proceed to ask him about two lenses, which he denies to have in stock.
I tell him "in fact you have two of them", which turns out to be the case.
He beckons me to the back of the store, where he begins to jerkily unlock one of the display cases. I point to a lens - he picks it up and briefly mentions something about its qualities, then quickly puts it back without even asking me to take a look at it or taking off the back cap so I can check it out. Another lens - a 50 summicron - turns out to be a collapsible instead of a fixed version, which I point out might damage my - *gasp* - BESSA. at that moment he gets really talkative proclaiming he can't help me with any of that. I am at that point utterly frustrated, say my "goodbye" and leave that damn store.
seems I did not correspond to the posh "shopping-at-leica" stereotype or whatever qualifies one to buy a lens there. guess I'll take my business elsewhere & thank you very much, Mr. Leica-Berlin-don't-need-no-customers-like-you.
nico
Well-known
I don't know if it's the same store I've been 2 years ago. I asked if they had some bessa model (just because they had some Voigtlander old stuff for sale and a photolab in the nearby send me there when I asked about some camera shop) ... they answered , also with unkind manners (they pretended they did not speak english so had to have a translation from a friend 
), they did not have in stock because "it was not even a brand" ....
), they did not have in stock because "it was not even a brand" ....
principe azul
Ian
Once had an assistant in an upmarket clothes shop gush over my M4. "Best cameras in the world" etc. etc. "Is that a Leica lens?"
"No," I said, "it's a Voigtlander," and went on to say how the boss of Cosina was a real enthusiast and produced all these good lenses.
"Ah, not Leica, they're the best."
"Do you do photography?" I ask.
"No."
Your guy needs to sort out whether he's a camera salesman or the Guardian of the Sacred Mysteries...
I'd add I've come across a little standoffishness in various places, perhaps because I haven't shaved or polished my shoes. But because of the way I speak, as soon as I open my mouth, I get a different story. Little do they know I don't have the kind of money my voice might suggest, ha ha!
"No," I said, "it's a Voigtlander," and went on to say how the boss of Cosina was a real enthusiast and produced all these good lenses.
"Ah, not Leica, they're the best."
"Do you do photography?" I ask.
"No."
Your guy needs to sort out whether he's a camera salesman or the Guardian of the Sacred Mysteries...
I'd add I've come across a little standoffishness in various places, perhaps because I haven't shaved or polished my shoes. But because of the way I speak, as soon as I open my mouth, I get a different story. Little do they know I don't have the kind of money my voice might suggest, ha ha!
yoyo22
Well-known
Perhaps it has just been a severe case of unfriendliness, which I found to be quite common among Berliners.
Come to Hamburg and visit the store of leicabeimeister.de. I found them really helpful and friendly, not at all snobbish.
Pascal
Come to Hamburg and visit the store of leicabeimeister.de. I found them really helpful and friendly, not at all snobbish.
Pascal
noci
Established
was that downtown west berlin, nico?
principe azul
Ian
Or, if you're sassy enough to get away with a line from Absolutely Fabulous,
"You can drop the attitude. You only work in a shop.''
"You can drop the attitude. You only work in a shop.''
noci
Established
ha, that's the same owners as in Berlin, yoyo! but yea, can't generalize..
nico
Well-known
noci said:
Yes, it was "very" downtown ... I'm sorry I can't remember the name of the street ...
yoyo22
Well-known
The store in Hamburg is the original franchise, existing since 1925 while the dependance in Berlin had it's grand opening in June 2006.noci said:
To me it always felt like the store in Hamburg is being run in the spirit traditional businessmen from Hamburg do business - honest and trustworthy.
And as I stated before: I don't like the general rudeness of Berliners (and imho Berlin itself isn't worth a visit).
Pascal
noci
Established
principe azul said:
wish I had that attitude at the right moments.. otherwise, I'm way too meek for that...
.. too bad not all places are as friendly as RFF.anyways, I'll check out the Hamburg classifieds instead. yup, Berliners can be quite unfriendly.. sad! just came back from the US, so it's a double shock, so to speak..
Mohan
Established
I’ve had a fair few dirty looks just walking in to some of the higher end camera stores, one notable exception is Aperture in London , who on a few occasions have virtually insisted on pulling stuff out of cases to show me even though I’ve made it clear that I’m not in a position to buy.
I would think that the hostile stores are shooting themselves in the foot by not being a bit more welcoming, as young leica shooters seem to be a rare breed, I guess they’d rather sell another pointless special addition to some old collector to put on a shelf. I have a mental list of places I’m never going to spend a cent at.
I would think that the hostile stores are shooting themselves in the foot by not being a bit more welcoming, as young leica shooters seem to be a rare breed, I guess they’d rather sell another pointless special addition to some old collector to put on a shelf. I have a mental list of places I’m never going to spend a cent at.
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Uncle Bill
Well-known
I think there is a certain amount of, "you don't look like you belong to the club."
I have found Toronto though considered a "cold city" by Canadian standards is positively warm compared to what I am reading about Berlin. I have never had any trouble with local camera shops. I think the only execption is an establishment I won't name that decided not to sell film anymore (even though they stocked vintage cameras including some Leicas)
I have found Toronto though considered a "cold city" by Canadian standards is positively warm compared to what I am reading about Berlin. I have never had any trouble with local camera shops. I think the only execption is an establishment I won't name that decided not to sell film anymore (even though they stocked vintage cameras including some Leicas)
NickTrop
Veteran
N-n-n-n-n-n-no. With all due respect, it was YOUR approach that was all wrong. I learned this years ago when on a double date at a fancy schmantzy restaurant by my friend's date. We made reservations to a restaurant we couldn't afford, and were underdressed for. We were "looked down our noses upon" by the snooty waiter...
After being treated like we "weren't good enough", my friends then GF laughed and said, "Ya know what? He's a waiter. Our very own little table monkey working for tips". Yo, get me more water. And don't make me wait like you did last time. This forks has a spot on it. Get me another one and make sure it isn't filthy this time. She treated this guy like he was behind the counter at a McDonalds. Once the "facade" was destroyed that he is what he is - only a "waiter" no better than the lady down the road at the diner slinging hash at the $2.99 breakfast special place, he underwent a major "attitude adjustment"...
Know what? She was spot-on.
The dude at the Leica store in Berlin - is, when it comes right down to it, a retail store clerk. Period. Hey Sport, I wanna see that lens behind the counter there, be quick about it, and don't get your greazy mitts on da glass. I might actually buy it.
There's an old expression - treat a tramp like a lady and treat a lady like a tramp. I "sorta" apply this idear when dealing with retail personnel. Treat the "Rolex" salesman like Al Bundy (if he's being a snobby a-hole) and treat the minimum wage worker politely and with respect if they're doing a good job to serve you.
After being treated like we "weren't good enough", my friends then GF laughed and said, "Ya know what? He's a waiter. Our very own little table monkey working for tips". Yo, get me more water. And don't make me wait like you did last time. This forks has a spot on it. Get me another one and make sure it isn't filthy this time. She treated this guy like he was behind the counter at a McDonalds. Once the "facade" was destroyed that he is what he is - only a "waiter" no better than the lady down the road at the diner slinging hash at the $2.99 breakfast special place, he underwent a major "attitude adjustment"...
Know what? She was spot-on.
The dude at the Leica store in Berlin - is, when it comes right down to it, a retail store clerk. Period. Hey Sport, I wanna see that lens behind the counter there, be quick about it, and don't get your greazy mitts on da glass. I might actually buy it.
There's an old expression - treat a tramp like a lady and treat a lady like a tramp. I "sorta" apply this idear when dealing with retail personnel. Treat the "Rolex" salesman like Al Bundy (if he's being a snobby a-hole) and treat the minimum wage worker politely and with respect if they're doing a good job to serve you.
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ferider
Veteran
NickTrop said:
Well said, Nick. In my own job I have to treat my customers as king -
they pay my living. So it's not hard to return rudeness to rude/arrogant sales-people,
and it usually works. And you need to do it only once, they'll remember you
Roland.
Roger Vadim
Well-known
Don't worry, this is just the usual way Berliners behave... I have that experience every morning in the bakery. It does get better if you pay your duty. It is more a certain sloppyness than arrogance. Just the special charme of this special city
You'll get used to that - or move away.
(PS: I love you Berliners! But beeing nice to strangers doesn't mean you loose your pride and Identity!)
You'll get used to that - or move away.
(PS: I love you Berliners! But beeing nice to strangers doesn't mean you loose your pride and Identity!)
BigSteveG
Well-known
I've had worse experiences w/ store owners and I won't say who but it was Stan Tamarkin!!!!!!!!!!!! He is a snobbish dolt!!!
sooner
Well-known
You know, it isn't just Leica dealers. I find my local pro camera store is like that. The sales guys just act like only they know about cameras, and you're lucky they might be willing to just tell you what camera to buy. It's a rude attitude, and it's bad salesmanship, but it's a pretty common thing in camera stores.
SteveM(PA)
Poser
Well freaking said Nick. Get that sad tedious little man to give you any lens you want to see, then mount that thing proudly on your Bessa. Take some shots (make him pose for you), determine how it handles and balances, then say no thanks, and get it cheaper online (preferably here, among friends).
jbf
||||||
NickTrop said:
Thanks you nick. This is a wonderful expression and could not have been said any better. It is the honest to god truth.
Bluesman
Richard
Waiters with an attitude are best taken care of at payment time. When the check comes, you present a counter-check where you deduct a sum for each thing you find not to your liking.
Perfectly legal, and it generally opens up a nice (and often over-hearable ) discussion between the manager/head waiter and the culprit (often at the table..sweet revenge time)
So: make notes on the check, then - without talking - give it back to the waiter without paying and wait for his move. Or his master´s.
Samples:
Speck on wine glass -5 USD
Main course served on cold plate -5 USD
Bad attitude from waiter -10 USD
Waiter chewing gum while serving you -10 USD
Try it. It´s not for the weak of heart, and you need to be in a cool state of mind. Don´t argue, don´t lose your cool. If it fails, it at least gives you the satisfaction of the counterstrike.
I had to do this twice to snotty waiters at "high-end" restaurants. Both successful - in one place they let me off without paying at all, the other gave me the "rebate" I asked for. Stumped and angry head waiters, red-faced "table monkeys"...ahh sweet revenge
Cheers /Richard
Perfectly legal, and it generally opens up a nice (and often over-hearable ) discussion between the manager/head waiter and the culprit (often at the table..sweet revenge time)
So: make notes on the check, then - without talking - give it back to the waiter without paying and wait for his move. Or his master´s.
Samples:
Speck on wine glass -5 USD
Main course served on cold plate -5 USD
Bad attitude from waiter -10 USD
Waiter chewing gum while serving you -10 USD
Try it. It´s not for the weak of heart, and you need to be in a cool state of mind. Don´t argue, don´t lose your cool. If it fails, it at least gives you the satisfaction of the counterstrike.
I had to do this twice to snotty waiters at "high-end" restaurants. Both successful - in one place they let me off without paying at all, the other gave me the "rebate" I asked for. Stumped and angry head waiters, red-faced "table monkeys"...ahh sweet revenge
Cheers /Richard