Naptha vs. isopropyl alcohol vs. others

[HuubL]

What about methanol?

 

[JohnTF]

What about methanol?

It does not jump out at me if you are speaking hazards, do not drink it obviously, for cleaning, I think, with limited experience it is similar to ethanol, I think it is the normal denaturing alcohol added to ethanol to render it non- potable.

Common name is wood alcohol.

I would rank it a stronger solvent than isopropanol.

I do not recall coming across much of the pure stuff outside of a lab, do not recall the exact make up of the old non permanent antifreeze, but recall it was in it.

I get the feeling a lot of us grab what is closest, but I hear some of the alcohols are pretty hard on aluminum, but if a quick wipe?

Perhaps we need a survey to find out how many of us have bottles of solvents older than the cameras we use them on. ;-)

No one has mentioned ROR, expensive, but you really do not use much.

My fall back for really greasy stuff similar to MG parts, was a bucket of mineral spirits, pretty safe, but unless the part is going to be lubed up again, you are going to have to clean the solvent off. Charcoal fluid is similar I believe.

I heard of guys soaking bottoms of thread mount Leicas in benzene as a substitute for the time to tear the works down, not recommended because of the hazards and the fact that it is a temporary fix to a long term problem. Perhaps akin to stuffing heavy grease and sawdust in to a loud set of gears on a car to sell it?


Regards, John

 

[wolves3012]

What about methanol?

Strictly speaking, methanol isn't toxic. Unfortunately, the body breaks it down to formaldehyde (yes, that's the stuff you use in biology class to preserve things!) so it's rather bad news. It's also more flammable than ethanol (alcohol) and more volatile. It's a poor solvent for grease and oil, as are most alcohols.

 

[wolves3012]

It does not jump out at me if you are speaking hazards, do not drink it obviously, for cleaning, I think, with limited experience it is similar to ethanol, I think it is the normal denaturing alcohol added to ethanol to render it non- potable.

Common name is wood alcohol.

I would rank it a stronger solvent than isopropanol.

See post above and yes it is used for denaturing ethanol. Industrial methylated spirit (IMS) is usually about 5% methanol, 94.5% or so ethanol and the rest water. Methanol is added to make it undrinkable because it's one of several things that cannot be removed by distillation (it forms what's called an azeotrope).

 

[sevo]

I heard of guys soaking bottoms of thread mount Leicas in benzene as a substitute for the time to tear the works down, not recommended because of the hazards

That may be a nuance lost in translation from German - pretty much any unpolar light hydrocarbon, like lighter fluid, gasoline/petrol and light mineral spirits is called "Benzin" in Germany (where petrol is now limited to less than 1% of benzene and its derivatives, and all solvents are benzene-free).

Sevo

 

[JohnTF]

That may be a nuance lost in translation from German - pretty much any unpolar light hydrocarbon, like lighter fluid, gasoline/petrol and light mineral spirits is called "Benzin" in Germany (where petrol is now limited to less than 1% of benzene and its derivatives, and all solvents are benzene-free).

Sevo

I know what you mean, however, I have seen bottles of it sitting around, a lot of people never get rid of anything, and this was years back, the guy was actually bragging about his service skills, and he did not speak German, probably could not find Europe on a map. ;-)

As a kid with summers in the country, lord knows what kind of stuff I was exposed to, I recall spraying lead of arsenic on the potatoes, using lead pigmented oil based paints and roofing tars, etc .

I organized the lab store at several places and it took years to get the boss to have the haz folks to pick anything up. They had standing orders for a number of items no longer used, so we ended with perhaps 20 gallons each of the major acids.

And, of course, stuff was shelved alphabetically, I will not specifically name the oxidizers we had sitting about in 10 kg. bottles for 20 years or more.

Every store room seemed to have a bottle or more of benzene.

Toluene was used to clean slides with cemented cover slips.

Some stuff was stored in cabinets in classrooms for years, the cat I found was identifiable only by its basic size and shape.

Inertia abounds.

Regards, John

 

[JohnTF]

Strictly speaking, methanol isn't toxic. Unfortunately, the body breaks it down to formaldehyde (yes, that's the stuff you use in biology class to preserve things!) so it's rather bad news. It's also more flammable than ethanol (alcohol) and more volatile. It's a poor solvent for grease and oil, as are most alcohols.

Which property killed the people in Italy who drank it when used to fortify cheap wine, was it the derivative compounds? I recall blindness was another possible symptom? This is off the top of my head, but it is probably not a major item sitting about.

Anyone would not be very popular if they continued to use Formaldehyde in any class in the past 30 years, though a little remains in present preserved specimens commonly purchased, it is mostly flushed out.

Students hardly put up with the smell of the "odorless" chemicals shipped today. Used to really irritate the eyes as well.

Kept a lot of people out of that wing of the school as well during the lab weeks. ;-)

Again, large bottles in storage for years, though essentially unused, and I believe restricted now by law.

I also cleared out the ten lbs. of mercury and the dozen lab thermometers a couple of years ago.


Regards, John

 

[HuubL]

Which property killed the people in Italy who drank it when used to fortify cheap wine, was it the derivative compounds? I recall blindness was another possible symptom? This is off the top of my head, but it is probably not a major item sitting about.

That was glycol, one of the main constituents of anti freeze. Apparently sweet and tasty, but deadly poisonous if not treated immediately!

 

[JohnTF]

That was glycol, one of the main constituents of anti freeze. Apparently sweet and tasty, but deadly poisonous if not treated immediately!

I know that double alcohol is a bad one, does a job on the kidneys.

I was unaware that antifreeze since the mid fifties would have methanol in the mix.

Media reported methanol at the time, as I recall, but they get stuff wrong.

j

 

[Dave Wilkinson]

I know that double alcohol is a bad one, does a job on the kidneys.

I was unaware that antifreeze since the mid fifties would have methanol in the mix.

Media reported methanol at the time, as I recall, but they get stuff wrong.

j

helps ward off 'flu, John 😀
touche! Dave.

 

[JohnTF]

Dave, now you know someone will post that on You Tube.

 

[Bill58]

The citrus-based solvents available at most auto parts or hardware stores are good, safe cleaners for oil/ grease and dirt on almost anything, including vinyl. However, I wouldn't mix w/ Vodka and drink.

I use J.W.'s Paint Remover (citrus- based) for removing vinyl coverings and adhesive on cameras.

 

[jnoir]

I use an ultrasonic cleaner with dedicated chemicals

 

[semilog]

I believe the autoignition flashpoint for ether is 170 C. But that still is very low and ether is a real problem source of fires.

Earlier in life, I flew control line model airplanes competitively in the speed events. I blended some exotic fuels. Propylene oxide adds a extra punch to standard nitrometnane. Other engines used fuel containing ether and amyl nitrate. I always had some exotic stuff around the shop but always considered ether to be the most hazardous.

That's good judgement. Ether also has another problem. As it ages, it can form highly explosive diethylether peroxides. What do I mean by "highly explosive"? I mean that giving the can a hard knock, or even unscrewing the cap, can cause it to detonate.

Bad, bad news. Keep ether the hell out of your residence, and if you use it in a lab environment use it in a chemical fume hood, be sure to monitor its age, and dispose of it properly before it becomes a problem.

 

[Bill58]

Many years ago, an aircraft mechanic neighbor of mine in Houston gave me a 55 gal. barrel of Trichloroethylene (Trike). I used it for a long time for cleaning auto parts during my DIY repair or maintenance. I couldn't believe how good a solvent it was and how quickly things dried. After that ran out, I used Varsol. I think it's kinda like lighter fluid, but not as good as Trichloroethylene.

 

[Greyscale]

To clean grease or oil, I use Colorlok printing press wash, 95% naphtha, 5% ether. The ether makes the naphtha dry quicker. For adhesives (old light seals, for instance) I use methanol. For cleaning glass or plastic, I use 80% methanol and 20% water, the water slows the drying of the methanol so it dries streak-free. For cleaning rubber, or very dirty metal, nothing works better than Fedron. Be very careful when using Fedron around painted surfaces or plastic parts, though.

 

[Phil_F_NM]

I like Everclear. Pure grain alcohol.

Phil Forrest

 

[JohnTF]

I didn't say they were safe. I said they were what works best. Here in France you have to give your address if you buy trike, but at least you can buy it. I use trike and ether only out of doors, with gloves on, normally only for swilling out shutters. But by God they work!

Tashi delek,

R.

First time I saw trike, it was sold as Carbon Tet replacement, and as people found carbon tet was a bit tough on the liver, etc. somehow in an earlier age, people thought if you could buy it, it was "safe". Out doors, gloves, good ideas, every repair shop I have visited seems to have a bit in the air.

Toluene is a pretty powerful solvent, but it really depends on what you are using it for. Trike dries without much residue, which is good, as did carbon tet when it was being sold OTC as a cleaner.

Isopropanol, if you get it 100% is good, but the drugstore stuff is perhaps 20% or more water.

Some of these are still available at home depot, was surprised by the easy access to toluene, basically the solvent in airplane glue.

Good crack on the Brit cars, keep a bit of kitty litter under the MGB.
j

 

[dmr]

To clean grease or oil, I use Colorlok printing press wash, 95% naphtha, 5% ether.

This sounds like what we used to use back when I worked in the print shop, the product we used was called "blanket wash" (after offset "blankets") and I've always wondered what was in it. It did smell kinda nasty. We would also use acetone during wash-down occasionally, and I've used that in the hospital lab, but it does destroy some plastics.

For my limited experience in camera repair, I've used mostly rubbing alcohol and Ronsonol, and for Ronsonol, a very little bit goes a long way!

 

[wolves3012]

This sounds like what we used to use back when I worked in the print shop, the product we used was called "blanket wash" (after offset "blankets") and I've always wondered what was in it. It did smell kinda nasty. We would also use acetone during wash-down occasionally, and I've used that in the hospital lab, but it does destroy some plastics.

For my limited experience in camera repair, I've used mostly rubbing alcohol and Ronsonol, and for Ronsonol, a very little bit goes a long way!

I used to work for a printing-ink manufacturer in the 70s and 80s, we made blanket wash and yes, it does (did) contain some aggressive things! Several of the components are banned now. Then again, we used to supply lead-based inks to African countries, for foodstuff packaging - it was cheaper and it was allowed. In reality, the soluble-lead was negligible and people tend not to eat the packaging but H&S paranoia knows no limits nowadays.

As for alcohol/naphtha, aclohol is a reasonable solvent for natural oils and general grime but a very poor one for man-made oils and greases - naphtha (i.e. petroleum-based fractions) are far better and things like toluene/xylene are better still.