funkpilz
Well-known
Hey gang, I'm going on a trip through Belgium next week and I wanted to get a cheap 6x9 folder. After browsing through certo6.com, I went hunting on the bay and found two models: A Zeiss Ikon Nettar 105/4,5 Novar-Anastigmat with a Compur and a Zeiss Ikon Klio 105/4,5 Nettar-Anastigmat (not sure about the shutter). The difference in price is neglectable, so which one should I pick?
Any help whatsoever is greatly appreciated.
Any help whatsoever is greatly appreciated.
FrankS
Registered User
I think that the Zeiss Ikon line of cameras was a generally a step up from the Zeiss Nettar line of cameras. Everything would depend on the individual cameras themselves, but they have both been serviced by Certo6. Maybe ask him to recommend between the 2 of them.
funkpilz
Well-known
Just to clarify: I selected suitable models from certo6 and looked for them on eBay. These aren't serviced by Jürgen, but they're very cheap so I'm not complaining. I'll probably get them CLA'd sooner or later, but I have to buy from eBay so that the camera gets here in time.
pschauss
Well-known
Buy both of them. You can never have too many folders. ;-)
FallisPhoto
Veteran
A Klio is a shutter. To be precise, it is a Zeiss rebranded Prontor-S. Your choices therefore are between two Nettars, one with a Compur shutter and one with a Prontor-S shutter, both with Novar lenses. Since Compur shutters use more machined parts and fewer stamped parts, and have a little better reputation for reliability, then all else being equal, that's the one I'd choose.
FallisPhoto
Veteran
Zeiss Ikon was the name of the company. Both the cameras you are thinking of were made by Zeiss Ikon. The models you are probably thinking of are the Nettar and the Ikonta. The Ikonta was a step up from the Nettar.
FrankS
Registered User
funkpilz
Well-known
The names I gave were the titles of the eBay auction, I was confused by the Klio part as well. The Nettar is in worse cosmetic condition, should I still choose it over the Ikonta for its shutter?
Last edited:
FallisPhoto
Veteran
From what I understood, neither camera is an Ikonta. The one says "Zeiss Ikon," not "Zeiss Ikonta." Both are Nettars. Personally, since I restore cameras, cosmetics wouldn't be much of an issue for me. If it is for you, then get the one with the Klio; the Prontor -S is still a pretty decent shutter, just not quite as good as the Compur. Bear in mind that a sheet of self-sticking leatherette sells for about $20 though, and with that, a little metal polish, and a lot of Q-tips and patience, you can make either camera look like new. Personally, I'd just want to make sure the metal isn't too scratched up, the lens elements are good, the shutter has at least some movement on all speeds, and the bellows are not full of holes. I can fix all the rest of it in a day or two.
Edit: If you really want to, you can PM me with the links for the two cameras and I'll take a look (I have enough cameras to work on right now and I promise not to bid on them).
Last edited:
funkpilz
Well-known
My roommate just offered to borrow me his recently refurbished Rolleicord (it's in stunning condition), so I think I'm going to procrastinate on this folder business until I get back. That, of course, eliminates the time problem. So I could get one from certo6, for example.
Thanks for all you guy's help though, I'll be sure to keep your advice in mind.
Thanks for all you guy's help though, I'll be sure to keep your advice in mind.
FallisPhoto
Veteran
Uh... I've overhauled two cameras that came from him originally and I'd be very cautious about buying a camera from C6: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26972 The last one was a Bessa RF and it had so many problems after its C6 "CLA" that it took a couple of weeks and some spare parts to fix them. The shutter was also absolutlely filthy. Personally, I'd rather get one on ebay.
Windscale
Well-known
It is fortunate that you can go on holiday with a Rolleicord. You should never take any folder out for any serious photo-taking without making sure that the whole thing has had a good CLA, and preferrably new bellows, especially a cheap Nettar-Klio. I assume you don't go to Belgium very often and the last thing you want would be light-leaking pictures!
I would also agree with Fallisphoto that you should be careful with C6. I have friends who got folders which were OK from him. But I also have friends with bitter experiences from him. I think there is a certain degree of pot luck involved. In one case even a set of new bellows had a pinhole. Generally, folders are very nice cameras but there can be so much problems with them. If you should be so lucky enough to get hold of one in good condition and actually works well, don't ever let go of it. Very often, a good CLA with the bellows replacement will revive a good camera and make it a good workhorse for you for some 10 odd years. At the moment I am using a Super Isolette with new bellows from Birmingham, England and I can safely say I will not set eye on another folder for a long time. I have purchased an extra replacement set of bellows just in case.
Good luck with you Rolleicord. They seldom go wrong. But they also need good CLAs.
I would also agree with Fallisphoto that you should be careful with C6. I have friends who got folders which were OK from him. But I also have friends with bitter experiences from him. I think there is a certain degree of pot luck involved. In one case even a set of new bellows had a pinhole. Generally, folders are very nice cameras but there can be so much problems with them. If you should be so lucky enough to get hold of one in good condition and actually works well, don't ever let go of it. Very often, a good CLA with the bellows replacement will revive a good camera and make it a good workhorse for you for some 10 odd years. At the moment I am using a Super Isolette with new bellows from Birmingham, England and I can safely say I will not set eye on another folder for a long time. I have purchased an extra replacement set of bellows just in case.
Good luck with you Rolleicord. They seldom go wrong. But they also need good CLAs.
Windscale
Well-known
Chippy,
I purchased the bellows about a year ago at GBP25 each + shipping (altogether about GBP56 including airmail). They were good, but not best, quality bellows, and I don't think they are leather, but will do. I don't know wether you can specify leather bellows. I did not ask. I should have done so. All you need to do is to email them your camera and model and if they have that size in their records then you need not send them your old bellows. And they do have the measurements for most common models. So I did not need to send them my Super Isolette. But GBP25 for 10 years will be fine by me. The Super is really a superb folder. I much prefer it to my various Ikontas.
I purchased the bellows about a year ago at GBP25 each + shipping (altogether about GBP56 including airmail). They were good, but not best, quality bellows, and I don't think they are leather, but will do. I don't know wether you can specify leather bellows. I did not ask. I should have done so. All you need to do is to email them your camera and model and if they have that size in their records then you need not send them your old bellows. And they do have the measurements for most common models. So I did not need to send them my Super Isolette. But GBP25 for 10 years will be fine by me. The Super is really a superb folder. I much prefer it to my various Ikontas.
kully
Happy Snapper
Here is the link to Camera Bellows: http://www.camerabellows.com
They've been at it for well over a century and unless your folder is super obscure, they'll have the measurements already.
They've been at it for well over a century and unless your folder is super obscure, they'll have the measurements already.
Windscale
Well-known
Now they have changed their name as the bellows man is running it.
The website is: http://custombellows.co.uk/
Windscale
Well-known
Well Chippy, I think you can ask them regarding material for your bellows. But one must also bear in mind that things in Dear Old England do cost a bit more generally!
FallisPhoto
Veteran
Uh... wait a minute... ten years? Are they made of vinyl? Maybe they are made of plasticized paper, like the old Isolette bellows? Decently made bellows (leather or cellulose leatherette) should last at least 50 years.
Windscale
Well-known
I think if the bellows would last for 30 years, any longer would be irrelevant! Even at about GBP25 for 10 years would be considered good investment. This works out at about GBP2.50 a year, cheaper than a roll of film (120 of course).
sevo
Fokutorendaburando
The brittle ones at least (I haven't ever tried a burn test on a good one) actually were vinyl coated paper.
Sevo
FallisPhoto
Veteran
Surprisingly, some of the best non-leather bellows out there came from Kodak and Polaroid. It amazes me that they put such great bellows on their folders and such low quality parts into the rest of the cameras.