Never should have held a Leica..

[ddutchison]

Good choice! That M3 definitely sounds like one to pass up.

Outside of the great Leica intangibles (such as look, feel, sound and heritage - which as a user of an M2 I totaly dig), I don't think there's a lot of difference between the Leica and the Bessa from the shooters point of view.

The more accurate Leica RF comes into play with fast 90mm or longer lenses and super fast (f1.0) 50's, but you prefer wides. Leica M's automatically set the correct frame-lines when you change lenses which is a bit faster, but Bessa's load film from a back door, so they're a bit faster there (and only M4 and later Leicas have a film rewind crank, as opposed to a knob). You are battery-dependent with the R2a (but battery-independent - other than the meter - if you go for the even less expensive R2 ). Leicas are quieter, that may or may not actually have an effect on your shooting. You sometimes get a second chance with a Leica.

As for build quality, there are very few objects of any kind built as well as a Leica, but it hasn't stopped any photographers here from making great pics with their Fed 4's (a camera not renowned for build quality). Any way, having made the mistake of playing with a Leica, I suspect you'll get one long before your Bessa starts to wear out.

 

[downwithmirrors]

And the M3 doesn't have framelines for the 35mm, the most useful lens (have I got that right, Leicaphiles?).

The M2 does have, it is a thousand time better a camera than a bessa.

Shutters of this cosinas are run of the mill modern reflex shutters, noisy, while leica's shutters are masterworks under every point of view.

Not to mention the smoothnes of every mechanism of a leica.

It is like comparing a Rolls Royce to an audi.

Both can go fast, but the confort and robustness, the silence, the total feel are evry different.

I tested a bessa for no more than a quaerter hour some years ago, the viewfinder was no better than my FED 2, I was immediately disappointed.

A Bessa is wasted money, if this student is short of money he should buy an overhauled FED or a Zorki, then use a Voigtlander lens on them.

While saving money for a Leica, a real woman

 

[f/stopblues]

Well this student doesn't drive a Rolls, but I'm not wanting to fix up a Ford Pinto and call it good either. I can recognise the advantages of a Bessa (an R2a/R3a to be clear) and I happen to think its the best RF for me, aside from the Rolls Royce. I'm after the finished product, the art. It's fine if it feels like heaven to my hands, but the idea behind it is still the same. I want something good enough to let me explore my medium of choice, but not so troublesome as to impede my process. The Bessa falls directly into that category. Plus I get the M lenses which is the most important part anyway! Audi's make me happy 😀

Ew, what's that? I think I stepped in a Leicapile..

 

[downwithmirrors]

Well this student doesn't drive a Rolls, but I'm not wanting to fix up a Ford Pinto and call it good either. I can recognise the advantages of a Bessa (an R2a/R3a to be clear) and I happen to think its the best RF for me, aside from the Rolls Royce. I'm after the finished product, the art. It's fine if it feels like heaven to my hands, but the idea behind it is still the same. I want something good enough to let me explore my medium of choice, but not so troublesome as to impede my process. The Bessa falls directly into that category. Plus I get the M lenses which is the most important part anyway! Audi's make me happy 😀

Ew, what's that? I think I stepped in a Leicapile..

Leicas are like women.

If you see a beautiful one you just want one.

Let your love flow.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

Maybe that's why my wife does not mind my camera collecting. Every time I see a beautiful camera I want it.

I should be a foaming at the mouth Nikon fanatic. But I appreciate the strong points in most cameras. I love the M3. The optical construction of the viewfinder/rangefinder is amazing. It is more complex and free from flare, compared to the other M's. I picked up a very early M2, from the first regular production run, and it is a great camera.

As for the Cosina, mine is an Argus/Cosina STL1000 like the one in High School. Still operates, still takes good pictures. Especially with the Pentax 85mm F4.5 ultra-achromat on it.

 

[peter_n]

One day, you will buy an M3 of that I have no doubt. It will haunt you until you do. Just a thought here... do not look for a MINT M3 if you are going to USE it... it will terrify you. All my M gear is Mint to As New... and on the occasions I do take it out and use it... it is scary to say the least... afraid of a knock, a scratch, a ding or God forbid a dropping. I treat it with more care than I did my 4 kids. The thing to do is to buy an ugly one... with meter scratches on the top plate, strap marks and tripod marks... BUT no signs of 'dropping'.... some leather missing is good too... Then you will have no fear of damaging your MINT or Mint- M3 and you will go out and take photos without the former fears I mentioned... and you'll get the best rangefinder ever made and it will still outlive you.
Good luck and great shooting whatever you do in your Life.

I think there are big individual differences with respect to this. I got a new M7 (3 rolls through it) recently and I've been using it constantly ever since. I take it on the subway with me every day, it got a bit wet yesterday in a torrential downpour, and I have a 28mm on it all the time so I can use it like a P&S. The brand new Domke strap I put on it is beginning to look a bit dog-eared. 🙂 To me now this new cam feels the same as my M6 that I bought a couple of years ago. I think if you worry about scratching something up then you'll scratch it. Let go... 😉

 

[hoot]

Leicas are like women.

In more ways than one: you can't keep your hands off them, but then they constantly want you to buy them expensive accessories...

 

[Sonnar Brian]

I'm really ANAL about the condition of my Nikons. I have "mint" collectibles and "user" equipment. All have had film through them, but the Mint SP did not go to the beach. The user SP did. The user S3 went down the giant slide and to the pumpkin smashing contest.

But I just do not feel compelled to do this with the Leica. With the exception of the little CL (near Mint), The M3's and M2 are solid users, functionally perfect. Range from 8/10 to 9/10. But the viewfinders, wind, shutter, are all perfect. They get used.

Guys: explain to the real "woman" in your life that cameras are like jewelry. That they will understand, and understand why you want old cameras and lots of them. Telling her that it's like a beautiful woman and you have to have it may cause trouble.

 

[peter_n]

If you are collecting it is different. I understand collectors wanting mint. But a person who is using a camera can't be worrying about whether he's going to be hurting his camera or not.

 

[ErnestoJL]

IMO there are three groups of people here: photographers only, collectors and a mix of both. I belong to the third group.
I collect cameras that I can use, then their cosmetic condition is not important, however I take care of buying a camera which works as it´s supposed to do. What I do is to take care of any camera I´m using just because I want to keep them in good condition irrespective if I will sell it or not in the future.
I have cameras which condition run from non functional, with lots of dents, even some of them would be working again after extensive work on it. Others are in mint condition. Some others are just "used cameras" which show their age and traces of hard work.
If I buy a camera that was made 50 or 60 years ago, and was used and well cared, anyway it must not look as being new!!
All this is not related to the camera name, may be it´s a Leica, or a Yashica... all of them deserve the same care from me.
Everything is OK as long as anyone knows what he or she wants.

Ernesto

 

[Ravisher]

Everything is OK as long as anyone knows what he or she wants.
Ernesto

You hit the nail right on the head there. Too many people and I for one, do not really 'know' what they want. I buy, use and sell all kinds of cameras, many later wishing I'd kept them... only to buy another and sell it on 'again' later. I LOVE the Canon T90 as a 'camera tool' and have built up several 'kits' with some fine lenses... sold them and started from scratch again. I now have a T90 with 17mm f4 28mm 50mm f1.4 85mm f1.8 70-210 Vivitar Series 1 (old type) 90-180mm Vivitar Flat Field Macro (about as good as lense get!) and just bought on Ebay a Viv 35-85 f2.8 (another gem!)

I am selling two cameras on Ebay right now that I just know I am going to regret sometime in the future... Agfa Isolette III with 75mm Solinar and a camera most people have never heard of... the ENVOY with 6x9 on 120 with a 64mm Taylor and Hobson wide angle lens in Synchro-Compur-D. Hmmm.... why do I do it? Addicted I guess.....

But I will keep the T90 for sure!

 

[Doug]

Ravisher, your method of going through different camera kits and going on to the next has the advantage of giving you wide experience with different kinds of gear! The only way I was able to approach that level was by working parttime in a camera shop many years ago.

But I seem to approach purchases in almost the opposite way... I root around for fact and rumor, reading all I can find that relates to what I'm looking for, and then shop carefully. Once "committed" to a system or brand I tend to add to it, and rarely sell anything. The stuff just accumulates, so eventually I've acquired a variety of gear to use as whim or the circumstances warrant.

I think of buy/sell cycles as expensive, but accumulating has cost too! 🙂

 

[Ravisher]

Ravisher, your method of going through different camera kits and going on to the next has the advantage of giving you wide experience with different kinds of gear! The only way I was able to approach that level was by working parttime in a camera shop many years ago.

But I seem to approach purchases in almost the opposite way... I root around for fact and rumor, reading all I can find that relates to what I'm looking for, and then shop carefully. Once "committed" to a system or brand I tend to add to it, and rarely sell anything. The stuff just accumulates, so eventually I've acquired a variety of gear to use as whim or the circumstances warrant.

I think of buy/sell cycles as expensive, but accumulating has cost too! 🙂

I like your thinking Doug! but if I kept them all I would have over 400!!! Never mind the cost... I'd need another bedroom 😱)

 

[f/stopblues]

I tend to keep about three different camera kits at any given time, usually in different formats or at least different styles. They just get rotated out periodically. Seems like I'm always selling and buying, but the money stays in the cameras so I'm not actually spending a whole lot. I've never felt like I needed a stockpile of cameras, just what I'll use. Of course I used to rotate one camera, then two, and now three. I've only been into photography seriously for a few years, so maybe after a bit it'll be a whole new story. At least I don't have a wife to try to justify it to! I feel for those that do! (have to justify it, not have a wife!) 🙂

Chris

 

[back alley]

i feel for both...😉

joe

 

[Goodyear]

Blast this thread, reawakening my Leicalust.

I thought I'd put that beast to sleep for a while 🙁

 

[Ravisher]

i feel for both...😉

joe

Gotta agree with that one! I am 60 and had more wives than I've had new cars. And if it gets to where I have to justify how I spend 'my' money... then I'll be on to No.6 (and that's not new cars) 😉

 

[FrankS]

I'd be onto my fourth, but I'm only 49.

 

[Ravisher]

I'd be onto my fourth, but I'm only 49.

You still have time to catch up 😉

 

[back alley]

go frank
go frank

ravisher, 6!!
got me beat by a couple...🙂

joe