New Leica M digital Monochrome camera announced

[cfritze]

So can't the the MM be mimicked in software - tweak M9 output to resemble an MM? Re sharpness - write a RAW converter that instead of interpolating the bayer pattern into color treats each photowell as a separate datapoint. If one knows the chromatic response of the individual elements of the bayer color pattern on that sensor, wouldn't that give you the increased resolution of the MM on an M9 (in BW), plus allows you to mimic filters over BW film also?

Nevermind. Duh. I see why this can't work.

 

[Tim Gray]

Actually, I do want one but more importantly would want one to WORK! Reliable digital cameras exist, as I have owned one before. But do I have to buy five or six at $7k - $8k a pop until I find the right one? Enough of Leica making me out to look like a sadist. :bang:

Really makes $8k hard to swallow with all the reports of sending them back for 1-2 month stretches.

At least the repair bills are cheap out of warrantee 😀

 

[Keith]

Balancing out the cost of this camera against continuing to buy black and white film is a strange argument to justify it's price IMO. If the M9M costs the same as say 1600 rolls of Tri-X make the comparison on an individual exposure basis ... that much Tri-X equates to around 60,000 shuter actuations on the Leica and lets face it that's not common! When was the last time you saw any digital M in our classifieds with a high shutter count ... the majority of them seem to have 10,000 or less ... people don't shoot them like Nikons or Canons by rule. They buy the damned things, molly coddle them until they get bored with them and then move them on for the next incarnation of their photographic fantasies!

 

[BobYIL]

When was the last time you saw any digital M in our classifieds with a high shutter count ... the majority of them seem to have 10,000 or less ... people don't shoot them like Nikons or Canons by rule. They buy the damned things, molly coddle them until they get bored with them and then move them on for the next incarnation of their photographic fantasies!

What the majority M shutter counts show in one year, some real professionals do in ONE day.. (True! Marianne Oelund is not only a pro but a very knowledgeable engineer to furnish all technical data about her measurements on the new models..)

Check here to see what some counters show:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1021&message=4136444

 

[Michiel Fokkema]

To put it on perspective, here in Norway its price will be roughly equivalent to 1000 rolls of Tri-X (without processing costs). Since I shoot about 200 rolls of film every year (and some 10k digital frames too), the M9M would be payed for in about 5 years. Considering processing costs and time, I think it would be payed for in 3 years. If it only could completely satisfy the characteristics I like from B&W film, it would be totally worth it. Time and more images from the camera will tell.

Its pictures will still not look like Tri-X. They still will look like digital pictures, very sharp ones, that's for sure. But digital.
That's why they bundle Silver efex with this camera.

 

[eleskin]

80,000 shutter counts and it keeps on going!

80,000 shutter counts and it keeps on going!

My trusty M8 now has over 80,000 shutter releases or exposures and it keeps on ticking and in fact, a few Months ago it got a licking when I tripped over my tripod and my M8 pancaked on a floor of solid marble. After that all I had to do is adjust the rangefinder with a hex wrench and I was back in business! I guess my M8 has strong Portuguese DNA with a dash of German gestalt!!!

 

[Keith]

My trusty M8 now has over 80,000 shutter releases or exposures and it keeps on ticking and in fact, a few Months ago it got a licking when I tripped over my tripod and my M8 pancaked on a floor of solid marble. After that all I had to do is adjust the rangefinder with a hex wrench and I was back in business! I guess my M8 has strong Portuguese DNA with a dash of German gestalt!!!

But lets face it you're obviously not the rule of thumb here! 😉


I predict that this M9M will cause cause more discussion and hand wringing on this forum, not to mention downright brawls, than we've seen for some time! 😀

 

[aeturnum]

I think Leica is running a risk of pricing themselves out of the common photography market and losing mind share. Their prices are closer to medium format than they are to high-end FF cameras. I also think they've hurt themselves by sticking so closely to the template from their film cameras. Digital rangefinders are fantastic, and have a place in photography, but for a camera company that used to be focused on creating new camera technology Leica has been pretty lackluster recently.

I love my film rangefinder, and I would love to have a digital rangefinder that I feel is worth the money. I would also love to see a new direction from Leica and I think Leica is better positioned to do so than any other large player to try things.

While I love the idea of a B&W digital rangefinder, I'm in a small minority and I worry Leica will trap themselves by producing niche cameras in a niche of a niche (the high end of digital in the high end of rangefinders).

 

[bobby_novatron]

Probably one of the most interesting and controversial cameras to be released in recent memory. God bless the early-adopters -- I'll let them sort it out while I wait on the sidelines. 😉

 

[DRabbit]

I think the problem is that Canon and Nikon offer cheaper alternatives (5D MKIII / D800) that are still awesome cameras. Leica doesn't.

I always hoped that Leica would decide to introduce some mid-level M (digital CL?) at a more affordable price. Keep the 1.3 crop of the M8. *shurg* I know it's a pipe dream. I think anyone but very well-off enthusiasts and niche professionals are not their market anymore 🙁

 

[tstermitz]

Mike Johnston at the Online Photographer has a great article about Why Would a Digital Camera Have a B&W-Only Sensor? Mike is also the person who set the One Camera, One Year challenge The Leica as Teacher:

I would just like to throw this out there for what little it's worth...if any young or beginning photographer of real ambition within the sound of my voice would like to radically improve his or her photography quickly and efficiently, I suggest shooting with nothing but a Leica and one lens for a year. Shoot one type of black-and-white film

Those articles persuade me of the artistic value of the M9M. $8k is too rich for my blood, and I really think Leica should have priced this as a gateway drug to Lens Buying Addiction, maybe $4k.

One other thought about comparative values:

When it comes to color, digital cameras can approximately compete in image quality with the next larger film format, i.e. APS with 35mm film, FF with 645mm film. Leica lenses can certainly resolve to 36M sensor like on the Nikon D800, which is already killing the market for the Leica S2.

Does the Leica M9M match the performance of medium format B&W?

Leica lenses are up to that task, surely. Dynamic range maybe not.

 

[mervynyan]

I have second thought about this. One road, I always carry 2 bodies, one with color/slide, one with b&w. The argument is always that whether digital color can replace slide film characteristics, the film always wins. Now the amount of time spent one developing, wet printing and photo book finishing, everything takes few months at least.

Let's see more review and real world photos, if it can match MF print in b&w, I might consider getting one, along with slide films body-🙂

 

[jsrockit]

I always hoped that Leica would decide to introduce some mid-level M (digital CL?) at a more affordable price. Keep the 1.3 crop of the M8. *shurg* I know it's a pipe dream. I think anyone but very well-off enthusiasts and niche professionals are not their market anymore 🙁

I think most people here are waiting for that mid-level Leica. I have a feeling it'll never come as well. Oh well.

 

[Michel154]

some one could send there M8 to have it converted to black and white
nothing new... this guy have been doing it for years
http://www.maxmax.com/b&w_conversion.htm

 

[Keith]

The trouble is that we all know Leica's idea of a mid level camera would still be something that's going to be a financial leap for the average consumer.

I don't have a problem with Leica personally as I don't with Mercedes or BMW ... these are items that aren't made for the average income earner, it's a fact of life that us bottom feeders have to deal with! 😀

 

[jsrockit]

The trouble is that we all know Leica's idea of a mid level camera would still be something that's going to be a financial leap for the average consumer.

No doubt about it, but a $3000-4000 camera still seems more, and I cannot believe I'm saying this, reasonable. We're creeping steadily towards $10,000 for Canon's, Nikon's, and Leica's top 35mm digital camera.

I don't have a problem with Leica personally as I don't with Mercedes or BMW ... these are items that aren't made for the average income earner, it's a fact of life that us bottom feeders have to deal with! 😀

The average income earner in each of our countries can afford one if they really want it... it would just take some sacrifices. There are many countries where the average income can never ever dream of owning a $10,000 camera. We are still lucky even if we cannot continue to buy luxury cameras.

 

[Keith]

The average income earner in each of our countries can afford one if they really want it... it would just take some sacrifices. There are many countries where the average income can never ever dream of owning a $10,000 camera. We are still lucky even if we cannot continue to buy luxury cameras.

That's it exactly .... these things aren't quite out of reach but they do require a level of sacrifice. Most people can afford to own an M9 if they're prepared to drive a two thousand dollar car and make other decisions about what they really need to get by!

 

[DRabbit]

No doubt about it, but a $3000-4000 camera still seems more, and I cannot believe I'm saying this, reasonable. We're creeping steadily towards $10,000 for Canon's, Nikon's, and Leica's top 35mm digital camera.

I know... the $3-4K thing seems hard to swallow, but at least it feels more within reach. An M8-3 at $4K... at least I could sell some gear, save my pennies and have one in six months. $8K and above, that's like "oh yeah, when I win the lottery" or "let me sell my car..." LOL

The average income earner in each of our countries can afford one if they really want it... it would just take some sacrifices. There are many countries where the average income can never ever dream of owning a $10,000 camera. We are still lucky even if we cannot continue to buy luxury cameras.

Very true -- and good to keep perspective. The fact we can even discuss this, likely from nice laptops and computers on high-speed connections from the comfort of home, makes us lucky.

 

[Audii-Dudii]

some one could send there M8 to have it converted to black and white
nothing new... this guy have been doing it for years
http://www.maxmax.com/b&w_conversion.htm

Maybe, maybe not. I don't know whether they can convert an M8 or not, but I was in communication with them just last week about the possibility of converting my X-Pro1 to pure B&W and they said that while they're happy to give it a shot, the cost will run between $1,500 and $2,500, depending upon how much work is involved, and there is a good chance they'll ruin a sensor or three while figuring out how to remove the color filter layer from the X-Pro1 chip, as they haven't worked with one of them yet.

If they could guarantee the price would be $2,500, I would be tempted to have mine converted, but I imagine the cost of a replacement sensor will approach the cost of the body, and as such, destroying even one of those will ultimately push the pricetag a bit too high for my comfort.

 

[DRabbit]

Maybe, maybe not. I don't know whether they can convert an M8 or not, but I was in communication with them just last week about the possibility of converting my X-Pro1 to pure B&W and they said that while they're happy to give it a shot, the cost will run between $1,500 and $2,500, depending upon how much work is involved, and there is a good chance they'll ruin a sensor or three while figuring out how to remove the color filter layer from the X-Pro1 chip, as they haven't worked with one of them yet.

If they could guarantee the price would be $2,500, I would be tempted to have mine converted, but I imagine the cost of a replacement sensor will approach the cost of the body, and as such, destroying even one of those will ultimately push the pricetag a bit too high for my comfort.

VERY interesting. I'd be more tempted to try it with one of the much cheaper Olympus Pens... like this:
http://maxmax.com/olympus_e-p2.htm