New M8 issue

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codeandtheory

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So i drove out to this store in NJ. called Bergen County Photo to pick up my Silver M8. The owner Tom was extremely nice and stayed after hours for me to pick up my camera. We opened it to make sure everything worked. When i got home to put on my lens the rangefinder (lever to the right of the lens) fell off which i was able to screw back on. I gathered my gear and set out first thing in the morning. The first shot that i took in the elevator was the last shot. The camera went in to continuous shooting mode. I took the battery out and put it back in and every time the camera was turned on the shutter kept on going. I called tom and he replaced it the next day. I have not experience any issues with my new camera but i am very excited to receive the IVR filters.

Note The employees and owners of this store are incredible and are worth the trip out of the city.
 
Good to hear you were able to get a replacement. Now if Leica only improved their QC.
 
Aside from the first run cameras that had a design flaw I feel the M8 has QC on par with any electronic devise. When they fail it is usually right away- it's called the bathtub test in electronics and as others have stated if Leica ran a long and rigorous burn-in test (I'm sure they do to an existent) they would delay shipments and raise costs to filter out only a few defective cameras, I feel Leica is on par for the course in the way they test for electronic QC issues- no better, no worse. The moral as with all electronis- it pays to pick your dealer carefully.
 
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>Leica is on par for the course

Not to start anything but I think the expectation over the years for Leica is that "par for the course" is unacceptable.

That's our expectation as customers and that's how we justify the (much) higher prices of most Leica gear.

And in speaking with people at Leica they certainly don't think anyone else is in their league -- or their fairway as the case may be.
 
Aus,
The M8 is not expensive for a top line digital camera. Take a look at Nikon and Canon. The M8 is priced lower. As to Leica cameras from yesteryear, they were primarily mechanical devices like a Swiss watch. The new M8 is that and a computer, digital scanner, and so on. This is a much more complex camera then your Grandfathers Leica. I feel they are doing a great job and should be applauded for keeping the quality high and the entry fee as low as it is.

As to the finish of the M8's mechanical build, it is in every way a Leica and after an hour or day feels like a Leica to all but the most retentive. Comparing an M8 body to the likes of Nikon or Canon is like comparing a Leica to a Nikon or a Canon; that is to say a finely tuned machine to mass-market toys.

So what's changed?

Ted
 
I think Ted stated it accurately in that it is both a complex mechanical device and a complex electronic device with substantial miniturization. Having been a collector of fine Swiss watches in the past and owning a couple of them presently it is like the difference between a Citizen and a Patek Phillip. They just aren't in the same league.
 
Don't you people get bored comparing day after day your Leica equipment to Nikon or Canon? I rather have a "toy" like my D80 who actually works FLAWLESSLY than a 5000 dlls useless paperweight. How good a camera can be if there is a forum dedicated only to discuss their QC? seems to be really hard to swallow the spend for the M8 owners...
 
Yes the M8 issues board does unfairly and inaccurately stigmatize this camera. Hopefully it is understood as such by most who visit these boards.

SG are your listening and can you do anything about this? After all if the M8 deserves such a board then the R-D1 does too. Also if we are going to keep an M8 issues board can we please start enforcing its use by keeping this board free and clear? It seems to me the M8 problems board was started in the early days before the platform stabilized so perhaps it's outlived its purpose?

I'm going to get back to post processing my images shot with the 5k paperweight.
 
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Back to the topic... more things falling off the M8.

You said the M8 was tried at the dealership and perfectly okay but at home the lever just fell off due to a loose screw.
What sort of screw is it? Grub? Allen key? Any Loctite on it?
Anything more about the shutter firing fault?

Seems you are taking it all very well. Like, almost living-on-Prozac 'well'. I think I would've been a bit angry to say the least.

As for QC, I sold and serviced office copiers/fax. I'll never forget the 2 man crew opening/installing a new latest greatest item, powering it up and immediately hearing strange random noises I'd never heard before or since from an electronic device. Not a single button would work.
 
AusDLK said:
>comparing a Leica to a Nikon or a Canon

Never made such a comparison.

>Take a look at Nikon and Canon

You did.
Click to expand...

So what did you compare the price of Leica gear to then, Dave? You must have a reference point to talk about "much higher prices for Leica gear".
 
fgianni said:
Looks like some of the guys that did QC at Epson for the R-D1 went to work for Leica 😉
Click to expand...


Were these guys sent to KMZ (makers of Zorki, Jupiters) to learn their trade? 😀 Getting an M8 or an RD-1s is like getting a Zorki- you'd have to brace yourself for some "minor" adjustments to make sure that the camera shot right.
 
Sailor Ted said:
Aus,
The M8 is not expensive for a top line digital camera. Take a look at Nikon and Canon. The M8 is priced lower. As to Leica cameras from yesteryear, they were primarily mechanical devices like a Swiss watch. The new M8 is that and a computer, digital scanner, and so on. This is a much more complex camera then your Grandfathers Leica. I feel they are doing a great job and should be applauded for keeping the quality high and the entry fee as low as it is.

As to the finish of the M8's mechanical build, it is in every way a Leica and after an hour or day feels like a Leica to all but the most retentive. Comparing an M8 body to the likes of Nikon or Canon is like comparing a Leica to a Nikon or a Canon; that is to say a finely tuned machine to mass-market toys.

So what's changed?

Ted
Click to expand...

The M8 is a top line digital camera? Top line digital cameras don't have serious IR problems, screws falling out, problems sticking in burst mode, banding, green blobs, etc. The "mass marketed toy" D2X, at about the same price doesn't have screws falling out, serious IR problems, etc. and is fully sealed. You can take it out in a rainstorm. If you do that with the M8 "top line digital camera" the thing will rust up and die because it's not sealed at all. As far as feel is concerned, what I want from a camera is images, not sex.

What I do want is for Leica to get serious and fix the bloody thing. I very much want a really good rangefinder for the things you can do best with a rangefinder, which, incidentally, aren't quite the same things you can do best with a DSLR. I like my R-D1, but it's an interim tool until Leica or someone else can get with the program and come up with a real winner. Right now Leica looks like the best bet, but we'll just have to wait and see.
 
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RSL,
Yea your right- screws are falling off my M8 and most others (it seems even one complaint or random issue becomes an everyday occurrence for some), magnesium rusts, green blobs galore (huh?), light fall off- a factor of DRF photography but much improved with the M8 and a creative tool, and so on are ruining most of my, and other M8 photogs shots- please. This is a world class camera today, unique it its image making ability but so far out of the box that most left brain types fail to grasp it's significance. That this camera is not right for everyone is evidenced by people who don’t own one dragging out these red herrings against it. That they could also forgive the Epson due to the fact it is less expensive is telling. That it is a world-class camera and far superior to our other DRF option is supported by the photographic record and the quality of it's rangefinder.

RSL you started one of the most participated posts on this board, though a straw man from its inception, it is obvious that you would like a digital Leica M camera someday. For the sake of those of us who do own one would you please state when the Leica M camera would meet your standards? That is to say what issues inherent to engineering a DRF camera will Leica need to overcome, and what features must it have before you'll purchase a DRF with a red dot? (This will put your point-of-view into perspective as well as establish your benchmark.) For the record, the Epson R-D1, a camera with considerably less capability and far lower IQ (I should know as I own both) seems good enough for you to pay $1500 for so please also tell us what Leica will need to charge for it’s next DRF camera before you stop complaining about the Leica and start shooting one.

As to my remarks about the Canon and Nikon, the Canon (to my eye) looks as plastic as it’s images whereas the Nikon creates images that look far better then the camera that took them : )
 
would you please state when the Leica M camera would meet your standards? That is to say what issues inherent to engineering a DRF camera will Leica need to overcome, and what features must it have before you'll purchase a DRF with a red dot? (This will put your point-of-view into perspective as well as establish your benchmark.) For the record, the Epson R-D1, a camera with considerably less capability and far lower IQ (I should know as I own both) seems good enough for you to pay $1500 for so please also tell us what Leica will need to charge for it’s next DRF camera before you stop complaining about the Leica and start shooting one.
Click to expand...


Ted, It would be interesting to know why you're so defensive about the M8, but here's your answer: I want a camera that doesn't need an IR filter to handle what, evidently, is less than a universal problem, but still is a problem that can screw up the shot you worked hard to get and can't go back and shoot again. I want a camera that's well sealed so I can shoot in the rain -- not driving rain, but, let's say, the kind of rain that was falling when Cartier-Bresson made that shot of Giacometti crossing the street. I want a camera with a very quiet shutter. I want a camera that doesn't have screws falling out, or problems with banding, or green blobs. I'd also like a camera that has very low noise at ISO 1600. In other words, I'd like a digital camera that's pretty much like my good old M4, but with the kind of improvements I'd expect 40 years of development to bring. As far as price is concerned, I don't think five grand is too much to pay for that kind of camera, but I think it's way too much to pay for a camera in beta test.

Yes, the R-D1 leaves something to be desired, but it pretty much produces results that are consonant with its price.
 
>So what did you compare the price of Leica gear to then, Dave?

People have tendency of reading between the lines to support their own point-of-view.

I merely meant that $5000+ is a lot of money to spend on anything that is not required to keep us breathing.
 
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