New members or salesmen??: Hot line is open, lets talk!!

[SolaresLarrave]

I endorse Bobofish's suggestion.

However, I see it carrying some unexpected duties to our enlightened moderator. But then, self-moderation, fortunately, isn't rare at RFF. If this idea becomes a requirement, we will enforce it ourselves.

As for newcoming dealers... Sorry, if I'm to buy from a RFF member, it'll be from one whose postings I can trace as legitimate contributions to the forum (i.e., someone I "know" from familiarity with the avatar/internet name). How's that for a standard? 🙂

 

[stet]

I can see Jan's point. Participation breeds trust and builds friendship and community, and it's always nicer to buy fruit from your friendly corner grocer. To be sure, I think there's a few people who I've enjoyed buying from who are well-established here but seem to mainly show up with for-sale posts. Maybe they were here more often longer ago, but they seem to be welcomed whenever they do post. But Nick's right, as the site gets bigger, more and more vendor-minded people are bound to show up.

Just to throw some things out there, as Kin mentioned dealers posting, I've seen one site that set up a forum category for a specific vendor, who paid for it as a site sponsor. That was mainly for a store that had a lot of items. That message board also had a category it called a mall, where posters paid to have an ad run there for a certain amount of time, basically a classified ad. And readers of that group seemed to check the member FS posts more, but were mindful of updates to the "mall." (I've bought from both on that site.)

edit: whoa, forgot there's no preview mode in quick reply!

anyway, as I was saying before I interrupted myself, the good thing about such categories are that it not only helps pay for server costs, but it breeds trust between the vendors and the site members.

-rick.

 

[SteveM(PA)]

I'm very green here, came looking for some comments from Sean Reed about the R-D1 awhile back, then inadvertently found myself sucked into this maelstrom! These archaic little boxes, little orgies of leather, metal and glass... Maybe that will happen to others who visit as well...I am hopelessly addicted. I haven't tried to hawk anything yet (I gots nuthin), but I did buy r-brian's Fed3B after a couple days. I think it's important, as a newb who's trying to "gear up" a little, to not pounce on a FS...but step back and let the vet's have at it and ruminate/reminisce (and that's fun and educational to watch as well) and maybe wait awhile 'til the dust settles. Of course this involves self control, and spending all day dreaming about Doug's collapsible Summicron, and going to the grocery store just now picturing myself with greyhoundman's Canonet. Not to be self righteous, but I DO feel like a house guest, and I think that's how it SHOULD be...shouldn't come in all dirty and slobbering. That should come with time 😀

 

[Gerry M]

Hi there, I am wondering if some of the established RFF members will clarify something for me. I sign in and read the RFF posts several times a day. I have been a registered "member" (?) since 5/05. However, I have a grand total of only 8 posts. I have been considering offering several old rf's for sale to the membership, Isolette III, Retina IIa, Iskra etc., that I no longer use. After reading this post, maybe that would be in bad taste on my part? Hopefully, you can offer me guidance. Not being sarcastic, just need direction. Thanks for your help, Gerry Miller

 

[JoeFriday]

hi Gerry.. to answer your question (from my perspective), the respect you just showed the community by asking that question puts you in fairly good standing with the community.. we really don't require much participation here.. we just want to know who we're dealing with, and not be seen as an easy target to make a quick buck

I wouldn't have any problem with you selling your gear.. it would be even better if you jumped into a conversation once in a while, too.. we're not nearly as surly as we appear 😉

and langdon, that's exactly how I felt when I first wandered into here.. but I was greeted very warmly and it was only a week or two later that I felt fairly comfortable.. it still takes time to get to know who everyone is, but don't think of it as a task.. it's just part of the experience

 

[franceluxemburg]

I have read this thread and agree with what as been said.
i am not very active because regarding rangefinder i have little expérience.
By the way other members is this forum possesing the marvellous
HEXAR AF

Best regards
JB

 

[RJBender]

Why not have a restricted buy-sell area of the forum that is only accessible to certain members with a special password?

R.J.

 

[sf]

On the other hand, and I'm only putting forth this view for argument's sake: some folks don't want to get to know us, they just want to unload some gear. As long as no one is getting ripped off, isn't that okay? We are being presented with opportunities to buy (or not buy) photo gear, which we are interested in. The big qualifier is: as long as no one is getting ripped off.

I do understand though, that dealers may visit here to buy up gear offered at reasonable prices in order to resell it. That, I don't like.

I agree with that about the dealers looking to make a buck off of would be legitimate and horizontal trading. People will always look for ways to make the most money at what they do. There are ebayers that make a business of it. And it is wrong from an ethical standpoint, but totally normal business practice.

I certainly appreciate the sincerity, knowledge, and mutual pursuit of learning that this group offers its true members, and I do my part to add something every now and then, so as to avoid being merely a lurker. I can't stand people that take advantage of such social environments.

I think it is NOT cool for those that would be only parasites to join and suck value from our trading pool, but if a known dealer comes around, and actually adds alot to the group by way of postings, and offers the highest price for what someone seeks to sell, they aren't really breaking any ethical code. In fact they are helping genuine members out by buying up used equipment so those members can purchase new toys. Someone that joins the group and immediately seeks to sell something, or buy something, make have only joined for that purpose, in which case they should be avoided. With a known dealer, that is, if we know for a fact that the new member is a major camera dealer, we might insist that they prove their value to the group before taking value from it.

Of course, it is not cool to discriminate against those that are sincerely looking to join the group for the right reasons and only happen to also see a camera for sale that they can't ignore. Or that choose to join only so that they can sell a camera to those that would most appreciate it. Someone might join just so that they can hand their M3 over to someone that will provide an equally loving home, and then never post again. In that case, they added value to the group. Someone that joins only to buy a camera, and never posts again, well, they are only taking value out of the group.

Bottom line : there are not very many truly pure sources of learning and social exchange on the internet (or in the physical world) for rangefinder enthusiasts. Even for photographers in general. The purity of membership and the legitimacy of gear exchanges should be protected - but not through any sort of overt control - just through social pressure.

Look out, anyone that has less than value-adding intentions for RFF!

 

[Sonnar Brian]

It was fairly easy to pick up on the "panamacolin" under any pseudoname.

So far I have never had a problem buying or selling here.I've sold to "silent" members whose only posts were to the FS column. I could get more for the item on Ebay, but choose to sell here as I want the item to get used by someone who appreciates it.

There are no hard and fast rules about who you HAVE to sell to, and certainly under terms of who you buy from. On Ebay it is rigid, you commit to buy and have to sell to the final bid. At RFF, we have had lotteries, condition of sale based on solicitation periods with the seller picking who they will sell the item to, etc. My disclaimer may be "I will entertain PM's for 24 hours and then decide who I sell this item to". The rationale? Filter out the resellers and target the item at someone who really wants/needs it.

That is the difference between a "business" and a community.

Of course if Joe sends a PM for Canon or Frank sends a PM for a 50...

 

[Hektor]

That is the difference between a "business" and a community.

This is a critical and defining statement.

RFF is largely self-regulated, with Joe as a long stop.

Appropriate conduct is to act broadly as a "house guest"

We don't seem to dislike dealers particularly, but we abhor dishonest people who deceive

Therfore the solution seems simple..........

Dealers who wish to buy or sell in the classifieds should be required to state that they are a dealer for profit, maybe their Avatar should contain the word dealer. Then every one would know any proposed transaction was "for profit". We have all bought and sold with dealers, and they have their useful place.

This is so as to distinguish the trade from the other kind of transaction between members, which might be described as a "social transaction" and could be clearly described as such within the promotion.

Anyone who abuses these conventions will become known to the membership, and will have to suffer the consequences of a failure to self-regulate, and indeed public criticism, and even disgrace.

To sum up I suggest all trades are marked "dealer transaction" or "social tranaction" so that folks know where they stand and may depend on an honest relationship.

 

[Toby]

I believe the phrase is caveat emptor (buyer beware). Just because this a friendly community doesn't mean people should not take the usual precautions when buying goods. If dealers want to come in and sell or buy things I've got no real problem with that but everything should be upfront and honest.

 

[pedro.m.reis]

I believe the phrase is caveat emptor (buyer beware). Just because this a friendly community doesn't mean people should not take the usual precautions when buying goods. If dealers want to come in and sell or buy things I've got no real problem with that but everything should be upfront and honest.

Agree.
Just 2 cents from a newbie with a bad case of Flu (NOT the birds one).
I'm a buyer not a seller, well at least until the Mrs allow me to be one 🙂. In my point of view, i'll not buy from a member before i use the tools that this forum has to see what kind of user this is. Then i'll make a decision.
Offcourse i'll tend to buy from a member that has more posts, more threads and longer membership. But this is my point of view 🙂. I do beleive that this forum should only be used to get the gear around and not making profit... thats what eBay is for no?

Any home receipe for flu ?? 😀

 

[Pherdinand]

Every week at least once i see an advice on photo.net's different forums, that "go and try to sell on nikonians or rff". That's enough for the reason.

I don't think it is bad that rff is growing, and i don't think it is bad if someone comes here and within the first 10 posts he tries to sell something, or even at the first post. It all depends on his manner of behaving and trying to sell or buy.

 

[taffer]

Toby: "I believe the phrase is caveat emptor (buyer beware). Just because this a friendly community doesn't mean people should not take the usual precautions when buying goods. If dealers want to come in and sell or buy things I've got no real problem with that but everything should be upfront and honest."

Pherdi: "I don't think it is bad that rff is growing, and i don't think it is bad if someone comes here and within the first 10 posts he tries to sell something, or even at the first post. It all depends on his manner of behaving and trying to sell or buy."

Join these two and you pretty much have my opinion 🙂

Oscar

 

[TPPhotog]

I'm with Pedro on this one and it did annoy me this week when one member was trying to sell a RF he got from another member earlier this year for less than half what he was offering it at 🙁

As the photo community is still very small in real terms it would help if members used the same names on all forums. That way a new member here might be a well known and trusted member from another forum that would be welcomed 😉

 

[Bertram2]

. It's just that I think some kind of "word" is out that if you want to sell something and avoid Eb@y fees try RFF.
best, Jan

Jan,
maybe it's about the fees but one has to face the fact that signing in here just for a trade the seller can act much more anonymous than he could do at Ebay .
In fact he sells under circumstances where all lights would be on alert red if this would happen at ebay.

What I expect is when all runs well for a while the first big bang happens and somebody will lose a bunch of bucks.

So instead of inventing a new trading subforum with a lot of useless rules I suggest to ignore these folks in general and to trade only with the friends we know well.

If somebody thinks he cannot resist anyway he cannot complain later, he KNEW the risk.
This way RFF will clean itself, no market no sellers.

Best regards,
Bertram

 

[lido]

This way RFF will clean itself, no market no sellers.
Bertram

This sums it up. I don't see a problem with people trading, selling or buying here. I had a very nice transaction with one of the established memebers just couple of weeks after I found this forum, and it was a great experience. But I doubt I would jump it and send a lot of money to someone I don't know (either personally or through this forum) or if I don't have a way of protecting myself against fraud.

I don't have a big (any ??? 🙄 ) budget, so I choose to ignore for sale posts and read about stuff that I love this forum for, browse galieries trying to learn and get inspiration from others. This place is addictive. Self policing might sound like an utopian idea, but I think it works here with a little help from Joe and Jorge.

Just my two cents.

 

[T_om]

I think most everyone here likes the idea of buying and selling in the family. It's how you define family that gets a little tricky.

Keep in mind that every family has their 'black sheep' as well as an Aunt Agnes or two that's not 'quite right' tucked away somewhere.

Tom

PS: Nothing personal Joe. 😉

 

[TPPhotog]

Keep in mind that every family has their 'black sheep' ...

I resemble that comment, but it sure saves buying Christmas pressies and doesn't deplete the camera fund LOL 😀

 

[dcsang]

Being able to contribute to this community, even if it's in my own silly way, I think is important. I think that makes one a "member of the community" as opposed to just being a "member of the site".

There's a huge difference in the two imho.

Cheers
Dave