New members or salesmen??: Hot line is open, lets talk!!

[RJBender]

Jan,
maybe it's about the fees but one has to face the fact that signing in here just for a trade the seller can act much more anonymous than he could do at Ebay .
In fact he sells under circumstances where all lights would be on alert red if this would happen at ebay.

What I expect is when all runs well for a while the first big bang happens and somebody will lose a bunch of bucks.

So instead of inventing a new trading subforum with a lot of useless rules I suggest to ignore these folks in general and to trade only with the friends we know well.

If somebody thinks he cannot resist anyway he cannot complain later, he KNEW the risk.
This way RFF will clean itself, no market no sellers.

Best regards,
Bertram

Good points, Bertram. There are no safety nets for these transactions.
People who sell are trying to help out friends and may sell for less than what they could get on eBay. Perhaps others have discovered that RFF could be a gold mine for them and have started digging.

Colin was a good example. Suppose he would have invented a user name such as Colleen? Could he have slipped under the radar and not been detected? 😕


R.J.

 

[RJBender]

This is a critical and defining statement.

RFF is largely self-regulated, with Joe as a long stop.

Appropriate conduct is to act broadly as a "house guest"

We don't seem to dislike dealers particularly, but we abhor dishonest people who deceive

Therfore the solution seems simple..........

Dealers who wish to buy or sell in the classifieds should be required to state that they are a dealer for profit, maybe their Avatar should contain the word dealer. Then every one would know any proposed transaction was "for profit". We have all bought and sold with dealers, and they have their useful place.

This is so as to distinguish the trade from the other kind of transaction between members, which might be described as a "social transaction" and could be clearly described as such within the promotion.

Anyone who abuses these conventions will become known to the membership, and will have to suffer the consequences of a failure to self-regulate, and indeed public criticism, and even disgrace.

To sum up I suggest all trades are marked "dealer transaction" or "social tranaction" so that folks know where they stand and may depend on an honest relationship.

Suppose they are off work and buying for personal use?

R.J.

 

[Hektor]

Thats ok, it's a "social transaction"............

But......... if they offered to buy as a dealer, and declared, they were a dealer, I expect they would buy cheaper because of the commercial requirement to make a profit.

Never forget..if you are a dealer,,,you make your profit when you buy something, because if you price it too high,,,,,you'll never sell it.......

Although I suspect some dealers try to gain both ways....!!!!!!

 

[RJBender]

If it gets to the point where members are getting played like violins at a sap's convention, no one will want to sell their beloved gear.

If a members upload photos that make it clear that they are going no further than their own backyards to take photographs, why would they need expensive gear to improve their skills?

Regarding the deleted thread, yes it was getting out of hand and I apologize if anyone had their feelings hurt as a result of my posts.

R.J.

 

[TPPhotog]

Although used gear is very cheap compared to buying brand new, these days the profit margins is in used kit. The margin between a trader buying from a supplier and what people on the street will pay is very small.

Towards the end of my freelancing I worked part-time in a camera store to bring cash in to pay the bills. My task was to sell the used gear as we made more on that than selling new off the shelf.

 

[RJBender]

Agree.
Just 2 cents from a newbie with a bad case of Flu (NOT the birds one).
I'm a buyer not a seller, well at least until the Mrs allow me to be one 🙂. In my point of view, i'll not buy from a member before i use the tools that this forum has to see what kind of user this is. Then i'll make a decision.
Offcourse i'll tend to buy from a member that has more posts, more threads and longer membership. But this is my point of view 🙂. I do beleive that this forum should only be used to get the gear around and not making profit... thats what eBay is for no?

Any home receipe for flu ?? 😀

The photos on their website or in their gallery should be a good indicator of how serious they are about photography, don't you think?

Remedy? A few cloves of garlic in a food processor with some fresh orange juice. 😉

R.J.

 

[pedro.m.reis]

If a members upload photos that make it clear that they are going no further than their own backyards to take photographs, why would they need expensive gear to improve their skills?

R.J.

And why not? 🙂
I go further than my backyard... but not too much, is that a reason for not to buy a good, expensive, camera?
Also, i'm not uploading my photos just because i know that they are not as good as the other members ... yes i'm ashamed of most of them..... But i'm triyinng!!

And the flu is getting worse... maybe i just go home to bed 🙁

 

[Hektor]

If it gets to the point where members are getting played like violins at a sap's convention, no one will want to sell their beloved gear.R.J.

Well if a lot of covert dealers move in thats what will happen, - They will be looking to buy stuff rather than sell it, because of the friendly pricing on RFF.

The simple thing to do is identify the dealers so folks can please themselves whether they deal with them or not.

An honest dealer, with a future, would not want to deceive people and should be happy to declare himself as a dealer.

Alternatively,,,,split the classifieds into two sections.......

One marked "Dealer Classifieds"......

The other marked "Members Social Classifieds"

You would know how you are dealing then.......this is all about honesty, trust, community, and commerce. - You have to know who you are dealing with !

 

[pedro.m.reis]

The photos on their website or in their gallery should be a good indicator of how serious they are about photography, don't you think?

Remedy? A few cloves of garlic in a food processor with some fresh orange juice. 😉

R.J.

So go and see my humble gallery and tell me how seriuos i am 🙂

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=2960

Hummm garlic and orange jiuce .. never herd of that 🙂) Will try as soon as i get home. Thanks.

 

[pedro.m.reis]

Alternatively,,,,split the classifieds into two sections.......
One marked "Dealer Classifieds"......
The other marked "Members Social Classifieds"

That would be nice if the "members" are honest in their intentions 🙂
But if they are not, no rules will change the beivour.

KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid - not a personal attack ok? 😀 )
and common sense.

 

[Hektor]

That would be nice if the "members" are honest in their intentions 🙂
But if they are not, no rules will change the beivour.

Well....we sure did change panamacolin's behaviour......

or did you miss that.......not one person would talk to him, once they realised his game..

.........except joe of course and that was to ban him..( I think)

The power of a community working with one mind and voice is very great.......!

 

[RJBender]

And why not? 🙂
I go further than my backyard... but not too much, is that a reason for not to buy a good, expensive, camera?
Also, i'm not uploading my photos just because i know that they are not as good as the other members ... yes i'm ashamed of most of them..... But i'm triyinng!!

And the flu is getting worse... maybe i just go home to bed 🙁

Let me rephrase that, Pedro. If it is obvious that the member is not making much of an effort to take photographs and that member asked me for free or cheap gear, I would question their motives. That's all I'm saying. Sorry for the misunderstanding. 😉

R.J.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

Despite the fact that I tested the Canon 50mm F1.5 on the E3 by going no further than my backyard, it is not for sale. Nyah.

 

[RJBender]

Despite the fact that I tested the Canon 50mm F1.5 on the E3 by going no further than my backyard, it is not for sale. Nyah.

Brian, that's different. Testing falls into a different category! 😛

R.J.

 

[pedro.m.reis]

Well....we sure did change panamacolin's behaviour......

or did you miss that.......not one person would talk to him, once they realised his game..

.........except joe of course and that was to ban him..( I think)

The power of a community working with one mind and voice is very great.......!

Couldn agree more.
I saw that, but was no need for establishing new rules (or was?? dont remember), just what i said, common sense
and keeping simple - ban 😀. All the self-regulating mechanisms worked.

 

[pedro.m.reis]

Let me rephrase that, Pedro. If it is obvious that the member is not making much of an effort to take photographs and that member asked me for free or cheap gear, I would question their motives. That's all I'm saying. Sorry for the misunderstanding. 😉

R.J.

Ok, ok, i did understand you. Just keep in mind that new members (like me) may dont feel too confortable to share the poor photos that they take (like me) 🙂.

 

[brightsky]

As a newbie here myself, I'm not 100% comfortable about injecting my opinion in this thread. I was drawn here because of the dedicated Epson RD-1 section and participation in that arena by people whose opinions I value.

I quickly realized this forum is "different" than others in its class because of its membership, who are a more genteel group. There are no sophomoric rants, personal attacks, or unprovoked sarcasm against other members. I have noted apologies to the group from members who felt they were "out of sorts," or were nudged by others to reconsider their post. One does not feel threatened here and the social fabric is strong and supportive.

A buyer and seller of camera equipment for my personal use only, I have not sold any of it on eBay because of the wild west atmosphere. The climate at eBay has changed considerably in the last 6-7 years and it has lost the more personal feel it projected in the beginning. I no longer buy any photographic items of value on that venue because of that loss.

I have bought and sold equipment in another forum because I have been a member for several years. I would not feel comfortable doing so here because I do not want to be perceived as a suspicious character due to my short tenure or low post count.

Driving up my post count with inane comments is not my goal. I participate when I feel I have something of value to add. One does not become a "member" simply through the act of registering. In time, hopefully I will feel comfortable in the FS section, but I don't now and completely understand the viewpoint of the "regulars" who question the motives of the fly-by buyer or seller.

There is no cut and dried way to weed out undesirable sellers or buyers without inadvertently stepping on the toes of a legitimate individual. It seems to me that the self policing membership does a great job of performing that function.

 

[Bertram2]

If it is obvious that the member is not making much of an effort to take photographs and that member asked me for free or cheap gear, I would question their motives. That's all I'm saying. Sorry for the misunderstanding. 😉

R.J.

Ahh, wasn't sure, but now i know which backyard is meant ! 😀 <giggle>

Bertram

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

Yes...I'm beginning to see a barrage of new members selling stuff, asking to buy...

I'm beginning to question some of these...

It's sad that some members feel offended about these concerns, but we are not talking about "low participation" members, we are talking about users with a specific pattern.

This is no "us vs. them"; it is an observation on some new members with a specific behaviour pattern.

 

[derevaun]

I'm not sure it's a huge problem yet. The fun thing about checking the classifieds board is seeing how fast almost everything gets snapped up. Seems to me that things are mostly working out OK.

As long as the seller states an asking price, and buyers use PMs to make offers, it's pretty easy to be selective, and to avoid lowballing dealers. Offers aren't binding, and you have plenty of time to get an idea of what the potential buyer is about before deciding which PM to respond to.

I've recemmended to a couple people on other forums to check the classifieds here for a good user condition RF. Ultimately they're strangers around here even when I've interacted with them for a year or more. I wouldn't send a seller here for reasons already stated above.