I agree, but many do not. Many people only want to buy a "good deal" and not what they truly want. By the way, I said nothing of bang for the buck...
uhoh7
Veteran
Who would have thought in the early 30s, when leica built a small camera to carry into the mountains for photography, that 80 odd years later the focusing system would have evolved into a fetish which simply trumped every other aspect of any given camera?
The nex-5n and nex-7 are more true to the original leica values than either digtal M body. Originally the rangefinder was a means to an end. Now it is obviously an end in itself to many.
That's not to say both the m8 and m9 are not superior in their ability to capture great digital images. Certainly the M9 is superior.
As to the sony EVF vs the leica RF: very very few are quailfied to compare them. The new sony OLED is very new. If you have not spent a month with one, you have no business judging it.
Just as much as I find the typical leica bashing distasteful, the RF snobbery is not terribly endearing.
RFs are cool. The idea that they are inherently superior to all past and future focusing methods is absurd. But you don't have to pretend that to love them.
LCT
ex-newbie
Why snobbery? A fact is a fact. EVILs are like SLRs, they "see" behind the lens. Nothing to do with a rangefinder. The point to know if you or me prefer such or such system is another question.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
The essence is very hard to understand, it seems. Using an EVIL camera is looking at a TV screen. Using a rangefinder is looking through a window.
LCT
ex-newbie
Curious that such misunderstandings come from RF users BTW. As if they had never held an RF in their life.
I understand what you mean... but we are not posting on electronicviewfinderforum.com either. Why wouldn't you expect rangefinder love on this site?
celluloidprop
Well-known
If the equipment you use isn't just a means to an end, you're probably doing it wrong.
'Rangefinder love' shouldn't be synonymous with bashing other ways of viewing.
'Rangefinder love' shouldn't be synonymous with bashing other ways of viewing.
Gid
Well-known
For some the equipment is the end - like having an expensive mechanical watch. There is nothing wrong with that IMO. The Nex 7 looks interesting, but I don't really care if it out resolves a mere 18 MP camera. My interest is in a relatively small package capable of good IQ with a range of lenses. 6 MP was and still is enough - I just had a 24 x 16 printed (as a 24 x 9 panoramic crop) from my long gone Epson RD1 and it is fantastic. I have A3+ prints from my 5 MP Olympus E1 that are superb. We are very much past good enough. If we were to believe all that we read on the interweb, we'd be changing equipment monthly, if not weekly. I'm as much as a gear head as anyone else even if I do know I don't need it. Use what you like. GAS can be fun
celluloidprop
Well-known
I don't understand anyone's desire for expensive mechanical watches, either, but at least they aren't designed to be a tool.
Gid
Well-known
Honestly, I enjoy equipment and I enjoy photography... and one informs the other and vice versa. I do this for enjoyment, not for cash so perhaps I don't view cameras as tools for work, but more as a device used for enjoyment. When I have taken a break from photography in the past, I did not own photography gear. I'm not a collector, but I do enjoy a nice camera when I'm out photographing.
I didn't think I bashed anyone... I was just pointing out that this is a site dedicated to rangefinders and therefore it will have diehard users of rangefinders.
Not everybody thinks / feels / acts the same. To some, any old camera will do... as long as it can get the photo. For others, they like to be truly comfortable / happy with a camera and want that camera to inspire them to go outside and use it. There is no one right way to do things.
In music, art, life etc. there are going to be people who are equipment / gadget geeks... and some of these people do very well financially with their music, art, life, etc. I know it is popular to say that if you like gear you can't be a great photographer, but it is bull**** really.
imagist
Member
I'm new here.
And felt surprised by the amount of non-RF posting.
While a lover of RF (Leica M, Linhof Tech, and Mamiya Press and Universal in my own 40 year experience) I'm also an SLR and view camera user (and sorry to have sold my Rollei TLR).
I find each system has it's "best used for" attributes.
The M's have always been my 24/7/365 cameras.
While I've not experienced the Nex-7 viewfinder I can imagine that sooner or later an EV may surpass the clarity, speed, accuracy and precision of a well calibrated RF.
(secretly - I wish for a mirror-less, full frame digital that could take my Leica M and R glass)
Me too... and hopefully a lot cheaper than Leica.
While I don't like SLRs much, I do like mirrorless cameras.
imagist
Member
Me too... and hopefully a lot cheaper than Leica.
I haven't met one I could warm up to just yet.
Though I haven't been searching much - as my current kits do meet my current needs - both professionally and personally.
(I also yearn for a CFV39 back to hang on my 500CM and 4x5 Ultima - though don't play the lottery; or have any kids left at home to sell - so it remains a silly fantasy)
KEVIN-XU 愛 forever
所謂的攝影,就&
I just sold my Leica M9 last week. And I will get a Sony NEX-7 instead~!
Because M9 can't give to much surprise to me. I think NEX-7 will be a funny toy that I want to have a try. Maybe I will keep using NEX-7 till the M-10 release.....
Kevin
Because M9 can't give to much surprise to me. I think NEX-7 will be a funny toy that I want to have a try. Maybe I will keep using NEX-7 till the M-10 release.....
Kevin
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
Peter^
Well-known
I can see the threads: "which watch for my jacket?" "I'm going on vacation: which watch?" "Review: Seiko outticks TAG Heure" and, not to be missed, "Using IIII vs IV: does it really make a difference?"
IMHO, there is very little difference between watch enthusiasts and RF gear freaks. Check out the forum threads at e.g. www.timezone.com. The similarities far outweigh the differences.
flyalf
Well-known
With all due respect, LL compares images by same lenses on different bodies, and since we know that the lens-sensor combination matters this is interesting for some of us.
I believe that many of us understand the differences of the camera's, and are well aware of the M9 essense
. But this is IMO not the purpose of the LL article.You are correct on you TV / window analogy. But another way of seeing this is that the EVIl lets you look at the photo before taking it (at least as seen on a screen). The M9 lets you look through a window with some similarities with the photo. This has pros and cons, but so?
LCT
ex-newbie
Not sure if that many people understand the essence of rangefinders. Try to view outside the frame with any EVIL. Looking at a "photo" before taking it will hardly help to catch the decisive moment. Not a reason to bash non RF cameras of course. Most of us are using them as well. Just a way of stressing that there are and will always be parsecs of difference between the highest resolving mirrorless and a mere Bessa.
semilog
curmudgeonly optimist
You are confused about "the essence of rangefinders." Let me help.
The ability to view outside the frame boundary is a property of some viewfinders but by no means all (see, e.g., Contax G). This has little to do with rangefinders, which are devices that use parallax to measure distance.
We might also ask how "decisive moment" pictures are taken with SLRs -- especially considering that many, many more decisive moments have been captured using SLRs than (say) Leica M's. This might suggest that the advantage conferred by seeing a bit of what's outside the frame is smaller than some people think -- especially when we consider the relatively abysmal framing accuracy of many VF designs.
On the other hand, the Fuji X-100 is not a rangefinder and it does allow you to see beyond the framelines.
I note that both the NEX-7 and (in its TTL mode) the X-100 don't have the problem of viewfinder parallax which is a significant limitation of conventional "RF" cameras like the Leica M's. There are real and important ways in which these modern mirrorless cameras are superior to more traditional designs.
Every design has trade-offs.