Nikon 50mm f1.2 Ai-s ~ 50 f1.4 Ai-s

[Ricoh]

Someone with more more knowledge might correct me on this, but I think it's because of the way the mirror and prism directs the light. I am not certain on the details, but basically you are not looking through the lens at "full width", but get more light from the center than you get from the edge of the glass, which is equivalent to stopping down the lens. So if the lens has a little focus shift wide open as is common, the point of focus will be slightly off.

I found that when you use a fast lens and press the depth-of-field preview button while looking through the viewfinder, you can turn the aperture ring and will see that viewfinder image only darkens noticeably after f2.8. Before that it will be the same brightness, no matter whether you set f1.2 or f2.8.

Look here, too

But you can lern to predict this behaviour and ever so slightly adjust focus. It will mostly matter when shooting people wide open and up close.

Thanks for this, lukx.
I have about 8 shots remaining in my FM2n so I’ll shoot some trial shots using the f1.2 with camera on a tripod.
Thinking about focus shift, I get some of this on my Leica RF, but the reason is different - something to do with lens design I guess.

 

[Larry Cloetta]

The 50/1.2 Ai-s isn’t a “sharpness” lens with an extra half stop of light gathering potential. It’s a “character” lens; at least that’s how I approach it. So many fifties in the world, so many different kinds of results. Most of them stick to the middle of the road. A few, like this one, are off on their own somewhere.
It’s interesting to compare the results from the 50/1.2 Ai-s to some of Nikon’s other 50-ish range lenses like the 58/1.2 Noct, and the 58/1.4 G. All three of those are character lenses, (though the Noct is extremely sharp and contrasty in the center wide open) and none of them yields results which would be confused with the results from either of the other two. If you really look.
Maybe it’s why some people own so many fifties.

 

[robert blu]

Interesting thread, thanks to all contributors.

I have the 1.4 AIS which I use on the FM2T and I' reasonably satisfied for my style of photography. By the way I also tested it on the M10 of course with Nikon to M adapter!

But I'm sometimes tempted by the 1.2 not so much for the 1/2 stop of aperture but curious abot the results with the 9 blades diaphragms.

Hope to see a few pictures from Ricoh and OtL.

 

[Ricoh]

The lens arrived at midday today and it’s bolted on my FM2n. It’s a big chunk of glass and I like it. Hope I like the results, but 90% will be down to me.

 

[Ricoh]

Someone with more more knowledge might correct me on this, but I think it's because of the way the mirror and prism directs the light. I am not certain on the details, but basically you are not looking through the lens at "full width", but get more light from the center than you get from the edge of the glass, which is equivalent to stopping down the lens. So if the lens has a little focus shift wide open as is common, the point of focus will be slightly off.

I found that when you use a fast lens and press the depth-of-field preview button while looking through the viewfinder, you can turn the aperture ring and will see that viewfinder image only darkens noticeably after f2.8. Before that it will be the same brightness, no matter whether you set f1.2 or f2.8.

Look here, too

But you can lern to predict this behaviour and ever so slightly adjust focus. It will mostly matter when shooting people wide open and up close.

Having the f1.2 lens attached to the FM2, I now see the effect for myself - it’s almost, if not completely, impossible to determine the difference between f1.2 and F2.8 in terms of focus, meaning it’s going to be guess work. So the lens with film will become a ‘character lens‘, choosing subject material that doesn’t rely on critical focus for outcome.
I would like to know the exact science going on here with prisms and mirrors.

 

[Phil_F_NM]

Having the f1.2 lens attached to the FM2, I now see the effect for myself - it’s almost, if not completely, impossible to determine the difference between f1.2 and F2.8 in terms of focus, meaning it’s going to be guess work.

In order to see the difference, you need to have a focusing screeen with a coarser grind installed. When Nikon et al. encouraged the use of their zoom lenses, over fixed focal length lenses, they had to outfit their cameras with screens that passed more light. Focusing a zoom with a max aperture of ~f/2.8 was easier than with the older, coarser screens, once they made this change in the early 1980s. This is why replacing a Nikon F2 screen with an F3 red dot is not optimal unless one wants to shoot mostly the slower lenses. If you want to make the most of your 50mm f/1.2 or f/1.4 (or other fast glass) you need to install the screen made for it. The type K or L are the standard ones with the standard matte grind, not the fine matte grind (this goes for the F and F2, not the F3 or any of the FM variants.)
Phil Forrest

 

[Larry Cloetta]

In order to see the difference, you need to have a focusing screeen with a coarser grind installed. When Nikon et al. encouraged the use of their zoom lenses, over fixed focal length lenses, they had to outfit their cameras with screens that passed more light. Focusing a zoom with a max aperture of ~f/2.8 was easier than with the older, coarser screens, once they made this change in the early 1980s. This is why replacing a Nikon F2 screen with an F3 red dot is not optimal unless one wants to shoot mostly the slower lenses. If you want to make the most of your 50mm f/1.2 or f/1.4 (or other fast glass) you need to install the screen made for it. The type K or L are the standard ones with the standard matte grind, not the fine matte grind (this goes for the F and F2, not the F3 or any of the FM variants.)
Phil Forrest

Good advice.
Nikon focusing screens are a phD thesis waiting to happen.
I have an entire collection. The screen in my F2 at any given time is usually the one best suited to the lens in my bag instead of the one on the camera. But, when you get it right, it’s Aces.

 

[Ricoh]

In order to see the difference, you need to have a focusing screeen with a coarser grind installed. When Nikon et al. encouraged the use of their zoom lenses, over fixed focal length lenses, they had to outfit their cameras with screens that passed more light. Focusing a zoom with a max aperture of ~f/2.8 was easier than with the older, coarser screens, once they made this change in the early 1980s. This is why replacing a Nikon F2 screen with an F3 red dot is not optimal unless one wants to shoot mostly the slower lenses. If you want to make the most of your 50mm f/1.2 or f/1.4 (or other fast glass) you need to install the screen made for it. The type K or L are the standard ones with the standard matte grind, not the fine matte grind (this goes for the F and F2, not the F3 or any of the FM variants.)
Phil Forrest

Phil,
I’m using an FM2n, what screen would you recommend for the f1.2?
Thanks,
Steve

 

[shimokita]

Not exactly your kit, but according to the "Focusing Screen Compatibility Chart for Nikon F3/F3HP (Except F3H)" the recommended / "Excellent" screen choice for the 50mm f/1.2 is: A/L, B/E, G2, H2, J, K/P/S, T, or U.

With my F3P & Ai-S 50mm f/1.2 I am using the standard "K" focus screen with good results.

_______________

Features of the Nikon viewfinder screens

All screens of a certain design, no matter what camera it was made for - kept the same letter.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A = fresnel lens with little 12mm. ring and focusing aid/split, for general photography.

B = mat fresnel lens with little 12mm. ring, for general photography, especially with 'slow' lenses.

C = clear screen with 4mm. cross, for macro- and astro-photography.

D = clear screen for long tele lenses.

E = clear screen with grid lines, to level the camera and for architecture.

F = fresnel with little ring and focus bracket for mirror lenses.

G = fresnel with 11,300 micro-prisms in the center; series of 4 to be used with various lenses: G1 and G2 for fish-eye and wide-angle lenses; G3 and G4 for long tele-lenses.

H = fresnel with 86,400 micro-prisms; series of 4 to be used like G-series.

J = fresnel with 1,530 micro-prisms in a 4 mm. circle

K = fresnel with 5,000 micro-prisms in a 5 mm. circle

L = identical to screen A but with tilted focusing aid

M = fresnel with large cross with millimeter scale; for micro-photography

P = identical to screen K, now with large cross

R = identical to screen E but with focusing aid

S = to be used with data back, showing the space where data will be imprinted.

T = fresnel with frame of TV-screen; usable when taking pictures of older TV tube/screen.

U = nearly identical with B and EC-B, specially made for Nikon F5

V = for Nikon D2X only: with high speed crop lines

W = for Nikon D2X only: with high speed crop lines
_______________

 

[Ricoh]

Not exactly your kit, but according to the "Focusing Screen Compatibility Chart for Nikon F3/F3HP (Except F3H)" the recommended / "Excellent" screen choice for the 50mm f/1.2 is: A/L, B/E, G2, H2, J, K/P/S, T, or U.

With my F3P & Ai-S 50mm f/1.2 I am using the standard "K" focus screen with good results.

_______________

Features of the Nikon viewfinder screens

All screens of a certain design, no matter what camera it was made for - kept the same letter.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A = fresnel lens with little 12mm. ring and focusing aid/split, for general photography.

B = mat fresnel lens with little 12mm. ring, for general photography, especially with 'slow' lenses.

C = clear screen with 4mm. cross, for macro- and astro-photography.

D = clear screen for long tele lenses.

E = clear screen with grid lines, to level the camera and for architecture.

F = fresnel with little ring and focus bracket for mirror lenses.

G = fresnel with 11,300 micro-prisms in the center; series of 4 to be used with various lenses: G1 and G2 for fish-eye and wide-angle lenses; G3 and G4 for long tele-lenses.

H = fresnel with 86,400 micro-prisms; series of 4 to be used like G-series.

J = fresnel with 1,530 micro-prisms in a 4 mm. circle

K = fresnel with 5,000 micro-prisms in a 5 mm. circle

L = identical to screen A but with tilted focusing aid

M = fresnel with large cross with millimeter scale; for micro-photography

P = identical to screen K, now with large cross

R = identical to screen E but with focusing aid

S = to be used with data back, showing the space where data will be imprinted.

T = fresnel with frame of TV-screen; usable when taking pictures of older TV tube/screen.

U = nearly identical with B and EC-B, specially made for Nikon F5

V = for Nikon D2X only: with high speed crop lines

W = for Nikon D2X only: with high speed crop lines
_______________

Thank you, very comprehensive list. I need to check what’s what with regard the FM2. This puts Larry Cloetta’s comment in perspective; if not a PhD, definitely an MSc...

 

[Larry Cloetta]

Thank you, very comprehensive list. I need to check what’s what with regard the FM2. This puts Larry Cloetta’s comment in perspective; if not a PhD, definitely an MSc...

All my comments need to be put into perspective.🙂

 

[Noserider]

Not just made for the Nikon F5 every version of the U screen is a full matte surface and designed for telephoto lenses over 200mm.I use them in F3/4/5 with 300/400/500 with teleconverters.

 

[huddy]

Lots of helpful comments above in regards to focusing screen. I've shot the following:
- 50/1.8 AF D (fast AF, very sharp, decent wide open, really good at f/2.8 and less)
- 50/1.8 AF-S G (decent AF, excellent neutral rendering/bokeh/sharpness balance from wide open and beyond, probably the best general purpose Nikon made until the new Z 50 1.8 was released)

- 50/1.4 AI-S (didn't find anything special about it's performance. Pretty mediocre near wide open)
- 50/1.2 AI-S (excellent general purpose lens, decent 1.2-1.8 especially for it's age, from 2.0 and on, it's stellar. I am pretty good at focusing this on a D700 with a stock screen due to practice practice practice, but can focus really fast and accurately on older film bodies with better focusing screens, even wide open)
- 58/1.4 AF-S G (Another character lens, with different looks at different apertures/focus distance. I love shooting atmospheric portraits with it at 1.4-1.6 with crazy swirly bokeh. Solid imaging at f/2 for lots of uses, really good at f/2.8-8 although still not the same looks/characteristics as a general purpose lens IMO.)


I am a big fan of picking up 50/1.2 AI/AI-S lenses. Maybe try a used one with a proper screen (may require shimming on digital bodies or lots of practice) and then pick up a new one if you really like it. Or just enjoy a user copy that you have (what I did, glass is great, cosmetically a bit rough. I'll never sell it.)

 

[splitimageview]

The K3 screen from the FM3a is amazing, I put one in my FE2, I think it is likely the best manual focus viewfinder/screen combo I’ve ever used (that list is long.) I’d highly recommend it for your FM2

 

[Ricoh]

The K3 screen from the FM3a is amazing, I put one in my FE2, I think it is likely the best manual focus viewfinder/screen combo I’ve ever used (that list is long.) I’d highly recommend it for your FM2

I’ve just been checking... the FM2n that I have accepts the K3 screen. Great! I’m amazed that Nikon still provide these 20 years on.

 

[dtcls100]

Yep, I also put a K3 screen in my Nikon FE2, so that its viewfinder matches my FM3a. Excellent fast and easy focusing screen, whose split image and microprism do not black out with slower zooms.

As to the Nikkor 50 f1.2 Ai-S, I have one and think it is a great lens. I typically use it at f2 instead of f1.2. At f2, it is razor sharp with excellent bokeh and none of the halation that is present at f1.2. I do use the f1.2 when I am interested in dreamier looking images, though.

 

[Ricoh]

Yep, I also put a K3 screen in my Nikon FE2, so that its viewfinder matches my FM3a. Excellent fast and easy focusing screen, whose split image and microprism do not black out with slower zooms.

As to the Nikkor 50 f1.2 Ai-S, I have one and think it is a great lens. I typically use it at f2 instead of f1.2. At f2, it is razor sharp with excellent bokeh and none of the halation that is present at f1.2. I do use the f1.2 when I am interested in dreamier looking images, though.

How easy is it to change the focusing screen and anything to be particularly aware of, apart from not touching the face of course?

I like a bit of halation, so it’ll be f1.2 as often as possible - once I can differentiate between f1.2 and f2.8 using the appropriate K3 screen.

 

[Phil_F_NM]

Depending upon the camera, switching screens is relatively easy, more or less. In the single digit F series Nikons, F- F5, the prism is removable and the screen plus condenser are one block that come out in a frame. Really easy. In the FM series and FA/FE, the screen is a little plastic piece that needs to be unclipped out of the mirror box, under the prism, removed with a set of (usually screen specific) twweezers and replaced as such. Nikon has a great array of screens for its cameras, but sometimes they don't quite fill a need. I replaced the stock screen in my Nikon D3 with one from a Canon EOS 1 V, in order to allow me to better use fast manual focus lenses, with a coarse grind, and the screen worked amazingly. As long as the camera has a provision for the end user to change the screen, it is a relatively easy procedure. Finding screens in perfect condition with all the extra doodads can be an issue sometimes.
Phil Forrest

 

[Ricoh]

Depending upon the camera, switching screens is relatively easy, more or less. In the single digit F series Nikons, F- F5, the prism is removable and the screen plus condenser are one block that come out in a frame. Really easy. In the FM series and FA/FE, the screen is a little plastic piece that needs to be unclipped out of the mirror box, under the prism, removed with a set of (usually screen specific) twweezers and replaced as such. Nikon has a great array of screens for its cameras, but sometimes they don't quite fill a need. I replaced the stock screen in my Nikon D3 with one from a Canon EOS 1 V, in order to allow me to better use fast manual focus lenses, with a coarse grind, and the screen worked amazingly. As long as the camera has a provision for the end user to change the screen, it is a relatively easy procedure. Finding screens in perfect condition with all the extra doodads can be an issue sometimes.
Phil Forrest

Thank you.
The camera in question is the FM2 that I use. When I googled the K3 screen the first page led to Amazon who are selling this item as new.

 

[robert blu]

Just curious if any more experience...I'm tempted by this lens...